Timmyb's scores

[Timmyb]

Another night to forget....

212/205/160 = 577. Lane conditions landed perfectly between the 2 balls I brought with. Couldn't control the Helios, couldn't get out of the Phaze. Not sure why I was hanging up, which normally never happens. Missed my first 10 pins in 5 weeks in the game 1 (5 of them on the night, made the rest). I stuck with the Helios for as long as I could muscle it, but that ran out near the end of game 2. After that, the Phaze was just stuck to my hand. 4 opens in game 3. Didn't help that it was near 40 outside when we got there, and hot as hell inside. Oh, and the team we bowled against shot at least 60 pins over series every game. Whatever. Average drops to 210.

[Aslan]

Yup. I had a similar night (again).

[Timmyb]

Better week that could have been better.

236/203/257 = 696. 28 clean. Only opens were in game 2 (missed 10-pin, and the big 4 for like the umpteenth time). Recognition that the Helios was not going to work was immediate, and the Phaze was on deck. Line stayed good, with only about a 2 board push through the night. Better was our team took almost every point, with the other 2 guys only dropping 1 game apiece. Dominant night for all of us. Wish every week went like this. Average creeps back up to 211.

[Aslan]

I wish I had a similar night to that one. Almost a 700! Good job.

[boatman37]

very nice!

[Timmyb]

I would really like to bowl well 2 weeks in a row....

237/204/174 = 615. All that needs to be said here is 15/16 at Lucky Lanes. Was doing well until the end of the 2nd game, and finally the barrage of 10-pins got me. Missed one in the 9th frame, and then the wheels came off. Started game 3 strike, split, split, strike, split. Finally realized the the move to the left should have been 6 boards, and not the 2 I was trying to make work. Moved over, and just sent it right, and that crushed the pocket. Too late to save the night, though. 10 10-pins on the night, and I'd guess somewhere close to 40 between all 6 guys. This puts me at 140 10-pins left standing this year, basically a 6 per week average. My average stays 211.

[Aslan]

You might want to try my new strategy of using weaker equipment.

I'm not sure its solving the problem or not...I'm not consistent enough and I just started. But, if you're hitting the pocket flush...and leaving 10-pins...you either need a stronger ball inside, a weaker ball outside, a reduction in surface, or more speed.

I'm always reluctant to mess with speed because that messes with timing and then you're screwed.
Hard to invest in a stronger ball on the hopes that it'll help...especially as your arsenal is fairly strong as it is.
And, given your arsenal consists of all balls with essentially the same RG...you'd have to buy another ball to get something weaker.

Your best bet would be to take as much surface off the Helios, Phaze III, and IQ Tour Nano. Hard to predict the order because the balls don't have much separation. I'd probably try:

Helios w/4000 surface.
Ball down to the Tour Nano (polished) when the Helios stops carrying.
Finish with the Phaze III (polished) when the Tour Nano stops carrying...although you might have to add a little angle at that point.

IF (and I'm just guessing based on all the 10-pins)...you're bowling on dry lanes (lower oil volume)...I can't see the Summit working at all...not with a 325 rev rate and 15-16mph.

Its one of thing's I've been working on lately...the bowling ball companies have made stronger and stronger equipment with lower and lower RGs...because the pros are throwing 21mph with a 450rpm rev rate. Casual bowlers are getting ahold of this equipment and trying to throw it up second arrrow with a 12-15mph shot and 200-300rpm rev rate.

When they start hitting light...they assume the ball needs MORE surface. But, the more surface they add...the problem just gets worse...because the ball doesn't have any energy left when it hits the pocket. You (we) don't have the speed to make it work and we don't have the 400rpm+ rev rate to move further inside.

The "key" is...figuring out what shot is consistently working. For me, I kept seeing old guys throwing old, beat up equipment...probably a 3000 surface...right up the 11-board...and X, X, X, X...right up until the lanes started to transition. Then its 9 /, 9 /, 9 /, 9 /, X, 9 /. The guys throwing 300s are the guys with 17-19mph speeds and cranker rev rates (350-400rpms). The old guys ain't gonna throw faster or with increased revs...wo how do they compete? They just need a ball that isn't going to react as much with the lanes...a polished ball, a high RG ball, etc...

Thats the theory I'm working on anyways. Work in progress. But, food for thought.

[Timmyb]

You might want to try my new strategy of using weaker equipment.

I'm not sure its solving the problem or not...I'm not consistent enough and I just started. But, if you're hitting the pocket flush...and leaving 10-pins...you either need a stronger ball inside, a weaker ball outside, a reduction in surface, or more speed.

Entry angle isn't the issue at this house. I've literally kept the same angle, banged out 4-6 strikes, and bam, a ten pin. 10 pins are an issue for everyone in this house. Old men (that's me), kids, down-and-ins, crankers, everyone. This house has a reputation for it. Consider this--one of the places I used to bowl has upwards of 2 dozen 300 games bowled in league this year, which is representative of most of the rest of Milwaukee. Lucky Lanes? 4...

[/QUOTE]I'd probably try:

Helios w/4000 surface.
Ball down to the Tour Nano (polished) when the Helios stops carrying.
Finish with the Phaze III (polished) when the Tour Nano stops carrying...although you might have to add a little angle at that point.
[/QUOTE]

Phaze is a pearl to begin with, which has been re-polished with TruCut. The Helios and IQ are both hit with a fast 4000, and then with the TruCut. Only 3 balls come with me, and one is my spare ball. I'm just not the guy that brings a pro shop with me.

[Aslan]

Entry angle isn't the issue at this house. I've literally kept the same angle, banged out 4-6 strikes, and bam, a ten pin. 10 pins are an issue for everyone in this house. Old men (that's me), kids, down-and-ins, crankers, everyone. This house has a reputation for it. Consider this--one of the places I used to bowl has upwards of 2 dozen 300 games bowled in league this year, which is representative of most of the rest of Milwaukee. Lucky Lanes? 4...

Believe me....I totally understand the frustration. However;

1) Bowling is governed by the laws of physics. So, the exact same ball hitting the exact same spot, with all pins in the exact same spot, and the ball and lane surface exactly the same...will give you the exact same result.

2) Every house has issues with 10-pins.

3) Usually differences between houses are the result of either oil pattern differences and/or pin weight.

Now, that doesn't mean it isn't the house. There's so many variants that the house controls....how they operate their oil machine, whether the clean the lanes or just apply oil over top the previous pattern, what viscosity of oil they use, the environmental conditions (humidity, temperature, etc...), lane surface material, lane age, how many times the lanes have been resurfaced, pin weight, pin age, pin placement, etc...

There's some nights where I SWEAR the pinsetter just isn't placing the pins in the proper spots. Especially if I'm constantly leaving a 7-pin.

And your point about 300 games...totally valid. When I used to bowl in Anaheim Hills and Fullerton...the alley in Anaheim Hills I averaged in the high 160s. At the AMC house in Fullerton....it was the only place (back then) that I averaged over 190. Its also where I shot my only 300 game (in practice). The pins just fell easier, the carry was way better, and the pattern seemed to be designed to make the bowler strike.

So, I'm not blaming your arsenal selection...I get it. Some houses are tougher than others. I'm just trying to share what I've noticed and what I'm trying to do about it. Is using weaker equipment going to work? Who knows? So far...I'm maybe 60/40 that it won't fix the problem. But the "logic" is sound.

The biggest problem...and I've yet to see a real solution for this...is that a 10-pin usually means one of two things (weak hit because the ball lost energy or incorrect angle). And, there is virtually no way to tell which one of those is the problem. You're 100% correct that it is unlikely to be the "angle" if you're striking 3-4 times prior. Its more likely to be the energy left in the ball. So, the ball is hitting at the same angle, but its not driving through the pins between the 8-pin and 9-pin...it's probably hitting the pocket and deflecting towards the 9-pin.

Thats why watching the ball go through the pins and out the back is so important...yet so many times we forget to do it...because we got the strike. Then, after 4-5 strikes in a row....suddenly you leave a 10-pin, 2-pin, 8-pin...and you're like, "What the HECK!? That angle has been working!" It's more pronounced in leagues with older, strokers who play the 1/2 arrows. They hit that pocket almost every time. Amazing repeatability that makes me jealous. And they start to leave 10-pins...frame after frame after frame. Why? Because they don't have an arsenal set up to allow them to ball down and keep throwing that shot and they refuse to move left.

Now, those older guys still outbowl me...but thats because they make 15 out of 17 of their 10-pins and I make 3 out of 7 of mine.

My best advice is...the next time you bowl...do THIS: Every strike shot/first ball, write down the result and where the ball exited the pin deck. It will likely look something like this:
1. Strike, center
2. Strike, center
3. n/a - missed right
4. Strike, 9-pin
5. Strike, 9-pin
6. Left 10-pin, 9-pin
7. Left 10-pin, 9-pin
8. Strike, 9-pin
9. Strike, center
10. Strike, 8-pin
11. 4-9 split, 8-pin
12. -----

If that second piece of data is "center", and you aren't striking, something is wrong. If that second piece of data is a lot of "8-pin"...you'll probably be moving left soon. If that second piece of data is "9-pin"...you'll probably be leaving a poo ton of 10-pins.

Is this a "perfect experiment"? No. Because there are other variables...primarily lane breakdown and ball speed...and since you're not a robot (I think)...your speed will likely vary. So you may want to note that too.

Just friendly advice. Its unsolicited advice, which I try not to give...but it doesn't cost anything and its an easy exercise. You're gonna be bowling anyway. And I'm sure you can find a pen and a piece of paper.

[Timmyb]

Dude, if I put as much thought into this as you, my head would explode. I'm a "grip and rip" (as much as I can even do that anymore) kind of guy. I do, however, watch the ball go through the deck religiously. That's what mystifies me about this place. I've seen a ball go through on an absolutely murderous route, only to leave a 10, or sometimes a 7. The mechanics are all there. I've rattled 10 in a row, only to have that stopped by a 10 pin. No one in this place is ever going to come up to you and tell you that this house is their "high average" house. One of the reps from the MAUSBC warned me about going there, and I unfortunately ignored him....