Another quick question on shoes

[fortheloveofbowling]

I agree with Rob. I forgot my ball and bowled really well with my new shoes.

Debate settled.

[Tony]

Disagree all you like. EVERY USBC certified coach will tell you the same thing: shoes first, ball second. As for asking that Pro, it's Robert Smith, Maximum Bob. I'll be sure to ask him the next time I talk to him.

I was speaking for myself personally, I am not a pro bowler, not bowling at multiple houses, have a slow easy delivery, and bowl on a house pattern. I currently use universal shoes, changing to house shoes have very little if any effect on my game. Using a house ball as compared to my normal ball is much more or a hindrance for me.

I would not say they the same would apply to everyone, if the USBC teaches, and expert bowlers attest to shoes first, I'm sure it's because for most of the people most of the time that is the best option.

Some people will be exceptions to that rule, just like there are exceptions to most rules.
I had a teammate that forgot his shoes and ball at home for a morning league, he used house shoes and ball and he shot a 750+, It was one of his highest series of the year. (210 or so avg bowler)

[NewToBowling]

So if a new bowler comes up to a coach and says he can only afford one item: ball or shoe. But he wants to start learning the proper way to bowl you would lean towards him buying a new pair of shoes vs custom drilled bowling ball? How will this advance the newbie bowler?

How will using house balls make him a better bowler? The number one thing a new bowler will need is a custom fit drilled ball. Because we sure don't want them picking up bad habits from using house balls. Certainly a certified coach can agree with that.

Difference between house ball vs custom drilled ball is night and day. If it weren't so important how come PSO shop owners are charging $70 to drill a ball for you. They should all just drill generic holes like house balls for every customer.

[RobLV1]

If a bowler can't generate slide with his sliding foot, and traction with his non-sliding foot to generate power, he cannot be taught the basics of bowling without which no ball is going to help. The idea here is that with his own pair of shoes a bowler can be taught to bowl by a qualified coach. If the bowler is not willing to spend the money to learn the basics of the game from a qualified coach, then I guess it really doesn't matter anyway. You have your beliefs and despite the fact that thousands of certified coaches around the world will disagree with you, you are obviously bound and determined to hold on to them.

[ep1977]

I can easily bowl with any shoes. Having the ball fitted to my hand and having my personal thumb mold in the ball makes all the difference to me.

[1VegasBowler]

Good, comfortable shoes are the single most important piece of equipment you can purchase. I wear Dexter's out in a year, two for the Tanks. Now I have 3G Tour Ultra, had over a year and still look and feel brand new.
Personally, i don't see the need for interchangeable on the non-slide foot however some seem to swear by them.

Getting a ball before shoes is like having a great stereo in a car that doesn't run.

I concur here.

While rare, there are some who can bowl without sliding, but I limit that to those who are advanced in age (65+), and that is for those who have physical limitations that do not allow them to have the traditional approach.

House shoes get so worn down, that, sliding is practically impossible. The tendency to stick is far greater because they do not maintain their shoes like we do.

If I cannot bowl in my own shoes, I will not bowl under any circumstances. Injury risks are bad enough with our own shoes. House shoes make it even greater.

[billf]

Let's be brutally honest. By the time a "newbie" goes to a coach they have a cheap, polyester ball and if lucky cheap shoes.
Now when this bowler is doing a one step drill learning how to utilize the power step properly to get full affect of their slide the house shoes as well as some cheap shoes show their value. That's on day one.
I've never, ever had a newbie show for a lesson without one of the two, ball or shoes.

Once the release is consistent and correct then we can get them a resin ball drilled to their PAP so it will react as desired. That's like getting shoes the correct size. A ball without a good release and no known PAP is similar to getting a box of shoes without knowing the size inside; you just don't know how it will fit.

[NewToBowling]

If a bowler can't generate slide with his sliding foot, and traction with his non-sliding foot to generate power, he cannot be taught the basics of bowling without which no ball is going to help. The idea here is that with his own pair of shoes a bowler can be taught to bowl by a qualified coach. If the bowler is not willing to spend the money to learn the basics of the game from a qualified coach, then I guess it really doesn't matter anyway. You have your beliefs and despite the fact that thousands of certified coaches around the world will disagree with you, you are obviously bound and determined to hold on to them.

But there is still an "if", with bowling balls there is no if. Some people can slide perfectly with house shoes. People can not bowl correctly (hook, hand grip pressure, span/pitch issues) unless you are going to teach people to bowl straight while gripping house balls.

Change your statement of "If a bowler can't generate slide with his sliding foot, and traction with his non-sliding foot to generate power..." to "When a bowler does not have a custom fitted ball to his hand....he can not be taught the basics of bowling without which no shoe is going to help" I believe the latter statement to be far truer than the (your) former one.

House shoes are still designed to slide. That is still their purpose.

House balls are designed to be there so you have something to throw at the pins. They are drilled for general use.

But yeah, this thread has jumped the shark already. Rob I know you agree with my statement above so we'll just leave it at that

[billf]

House shoes are still designed to slide. That is still their purpose.

House balls are designed to be there so you have something to throw at the pins. They are drilled for general use.

Actually house shoes are designed to not deface the approach. Slide is a by-product and it on both soles not allowing for the proper utilization of the power/pivot step.

I get where you're coming from and there are issues without either. I hate having to break bad habits that were previously taught, like gripping. Both are needed for optimum performance no matter what level. It's a chicken or egg scenario.

[1VegasBowler]

But there is still an "if", with bowling balls there is no if. Some people can slide perfectly with house shoes. People can not bowl correctly (hook, hand grip pressure, span/pitch issues) unless you are going to teach people to bowl straight while gripping house balls.

Change your statement of "If a bowler can't generate slide with his sliding foot, and traction with his non-sliding foot to generate power..." to "When a bowler does not have a custom fitted ball to his hand....he can not be taught the basics of bowling without which no shoe is going to help" I believe the latter statement to be far truer than the (your) former one.

House shoes are still designed to slide. That is still their purpose.

House balls are designed to be there so you have something to throw at the pins. They are drilled for general use.

Teaching a new person to bowl isn't about showing them how to hook a ball right away. It's about teaching them the basics of bowling.

While people will develop their own approach, if they can't slide properly everything else is wasted.