Another quick question on shoes

[Amyers]

But there is still an "if", with bowling balls there is no if. Some people can slide perfectly with house shoes. People can not bowl correctly (hook, hand grip pressure, span/pitch issues) unless you are going to teach people to bowl straight while gripping house balls.

Change your statement of "If a bowler can't generate slide with his sliding foot, and traction with his non-sliding foot to generate power..." to "When a bowler does not have a custom fitted ball to his hand....he can not be taught the basics of bowling without which no shoe is going to help" I believe the latter statement to be far truer than the (your) former one.

House shoes are still designed to slide. That is still their purpose.

House balls are designed to be there so you have something to throw at the pins. They are drilled for general use.

But yeah, this thread has jumped the shark already. Rob I know you agree with my statement above so we'll just leave it at that

I really think both are true I can't bowl well without a quality shoe and I can't bowl well without a ball that properly fits. Neither is really an option and honestly if you can't afford both go mow some yards or shovel some snow for extra money. For most of us shoes last a while my previous shoes lasted 20 years my current ones won't but I'll still likely get 5 years of bowling 3-4 times a week more than 3 games each time I'll bowl well over 700 games this year alone. I think we can agree the price difference is around $60 if you shop around the difference is about 8 cents a game for even if bought new shoes every year.

Now if the question was would I rather only be able to bowl with my $50 spare ball and good shoes or use house shoes and I can use any ball I want. Which would I take? I'll bowl with my plastic ball it makes that much difference.

As to the question is there away to markup a universal shoe to keep it from sliding not really and anything you do there is likely to offer the potential for problems. If your worried about a non sliding sole sticking to much I've never seen that happen but if it does that's not necessarily a bad thing. It just lets you know there is a problem with your approach that needs fixed.

[NewToBowling]

Teaching a new person to bowl isn't about showing them how to hook a ball right away. It's about teaching them the basics of bowling.

While people will develop their own approach, if they can't slide properly everything else is wasted.

Except you aren't going to be able to teach them anything if they balls aren't drilled to their hand. Teaching someone how to bowl using house balls isn't going to help them at all and in fact frustrate them because we all know it's about the ball "holding" onto you (and your thumb more specifically) then you holding onto the ball.

At the end of the day the single most important item in bowling is a custom fitted bowling ball, everything else is secondary.

[RobLV1]

NewToBowling: I think that you are confusing teaching bowling to rank beginners and teaching bowling to someone who is already in a league and wants to learn to bowl better. According to Mark Baker, and I am in total agreement, the first thing that a coach must do is to teach someone enough to break 100 consistently. Once they can do that, they are likely to buy shoes, and a bowling ball that are fitted to them. Until that time, you have one brand new bowler with house shoes and a house ball that you have to teach to bowl well enough to break 100. This is what coaches do; we teach the basics of timing, aiming, and the direction of the armswing to get the bowler started. Once they are able to break 100 and get "hooked" enough to want to get better, we encourage them to get their own shoes, and then, their own ball. They are still beginners, but they realize that they have a lot to learn and will often make the commitment to take lessons and follow the advice of experienced coaches. These are the bowlers who start with the basics and learn to bowl without depending on steroid bowling balls to do all of the work for them.

[NewToBowling]

I'm not downplaying the importance of shoes or any other bowling accessory. I think they all play a vital role in growth of any bowler.

But common sense says you can't progress as a bowler still using house balls. So my original statement stands.

I was just questioning Rob's assertion that a bowling shoe is the most important piece of equipment someone needs.

[NewToBowling]

NewToBowling: I think that you are confusing teaching bowling to rank beginners and teaching bowling to someone who is already in a league and wants to learn to bowl better. According to Mark Baker, and I am in total agreement, the first thing that a coach must do is to teach someone enough to break 100 consistently. Once they can do that, they are likely to buy shoes, and a bowling ball that are fitted to them. Until that time, you have one brand new bowler with house shoes and a house ball that you have to teach to bowl well enough to break 100. This is what coaches do; we teach the basics of timing, aiming, and the direction of the armswing to get the bowler started. Once they are able to break 100 and get "hooked" enough to want to get better, we encourage them to get their own shoes, and then, their own ball. They are still beginners, but they realize that they have a lot to learn and will often make the commitment to take lessons and follow the advice of experienced coaches. These are the bowlers who start with the basics and learn to bowl without depending on steroid bowling balls to do all of the work for them.

Not a question of steroid balls. Question of custom fit. I'm emphasizing the custom fit, not the actual ball itself. If they want to buy an undrilled house ball fine, just get it custom drilled (or plug and redrill)

Can't have a relaxed arm swing if you have the grip of death on the ball. And that affects your timing and aim. Won't be able to consistently hit your mark with grip of death arm swing. And if you can then why am I wasting all my money on custom drilled balls. Could have had them just drill generic holes.

But yeah, this thread got hijacked. Sorry OP

[Tony]

As to the question is there away to markup a universal shoe to keep it from sliding not really and anything you do there is likely to offer the potential for problems. If your worried about a non sliding sole sticking to much I've never seen that happen but if it does that's not necessarily a bad thing. It just lets you know there is a problem with your approach that needs fixed.

With the non sliding sole sticking too much, I have had this issue and can empathize with the OP, I admit my approach is not ideal, but it's mainly due to medical issues, and it's not really something that can be changed. With the OP statement that balance is an issue and a fear of tripping with a grip sole on the non sliding sole, I've had that happen with some shoes I bought last year and went back to universal shoes. I practiced for hours with the right handed shoes on my wood floors at home and simply can not count on picking my right foot up and walking to the line correctly every time, the times I do scuff my sole against the ground will and did cause me to trip.
It seems the OP has a similar issue and even though it's not the ideal situation one would hope for the suggestions and comments should reflect his concern and help provide information that can help him choose the right path to allow him to continue bowling safely.

The whole off shoot of ball vs shoes while interesting, is not really relevant to his original question, and probably didn't assist his need.

[Amyers]

With the non sliding sole sticking too much, I have had this issue and can empathize with the OP, I admit my approach is not ideal, but it's mainly due to medical issues, and it's not really something that can be changed. With the OP statement that balance is an issue and a fear of tripping with a grip sole on the non sliding sole, I've had that happen with some shoes I bought last year and went back to universal shoes. I practiced for hours with the right handed shoes on my wood floors at home and simply can not count on picking my right foot up and walking to the line correctly every time, the times I do scuff my sole against the ground will and did cause me to trip.
It seems the OP has a similar issue and even though it's not the ideal situation one would hope for the suggestions and comments should reflect his concern and help provide information that can help him choose the right path to allow him to continue bowling safely.

The whole off shoot of ball vs shoes while interesting, is not really relevant to his original question, and probably didn't assist his need.

As always when I post I'm talking for the average bowler many people do have disabilities and medical issues that have to be taken into consideration. I've also found that a lot of coaches are able to help bowlers find different ways around a physical problem that may be able to help rather than the method they have chosen.

Your probably correct that the ball vs shoe discussion didn't help the OP but it was insightful in many ways. My youngest daughter 12 bowls competitively (tournaments, Jr Gold) I've always told myself that universal fit shoes were fine for even a higher level younger bowler. Now maybe I need to rethink that.

[bowl1820]

The original question asked was "universal or dedicated shoes?"

Universal is referring to shoes that have a non-marking "slide sole" on both shoes, so that either handed people may use them. These are what are commonly used for "house" shoes.

Dedicated shoes in this instance is referring to bowling shoes that have a different sole on each shoe, one sole that slides and one that doesn't (a traction sole). Example: For a right-handed bowler the left shoe would have a sliding sole and the right shoe a traction sole.

Power in bowling comes from the legs and the next to last step in your approach is called the power step.

Having a traction sole allows you to push stronger into the slide with that power step, This helps you generate more power and transfer that power to your shot more effectively.

Having a "slide" sole on that shoe would not be as effective at generating and transferring that power. Because it "slides", it has some slip to it.

So the answer is a "Dedicated" shoe is preferred, if you want the most effective footing you can get.

Is that answer set in stone? No.

There's always exceptions to the rule, Say a bowler uses a plant and shoot style. A lot of them don't want slide at all, So they wear a tennis shoe (essentially a traction sole on both shoes). Or in the case of the O.P. who has issues about sticking that could affect his balance and induce a fall. Having a standard traction sole could be a issue.

But in general dedicated left or right handed shoes are the preferred shoes to have.

[LOUVIT]

i hope this helped some of the bowlers, I did some video and I walk to the line with 5 short steps but for some reason I need that little slide on the release. If I do not get that little slide I go forward. That video opened my eyes to how much I was bending at the waist and no knee bend at all ( i can't bend my knees yet) So I strightened up and it felt so much better and I didn't pull the ball as much.