when is it time to realize you are a has been...

[bowl1820]

What would make it illegal ?

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

Some nights when i have a unintentional wide variety of releases going i could be in violation of that rule alot.

[Tony]

Throwing a shot between your legs in of itself isn't illegal, it's the change or deviation from your normal delivery that is illegal.

Example all night you use the standard one hand approach and then decide to shoot a spare by throwing a ball between your legs at it.

USBC FAQ's
118b/2 A bowler decides to throw at a spare by delivering their bowling ball between their
legs. Would this be considered a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?
The bowler has changed or deviated from their normal delivery which is a violation of Rule
118b. This rule provides a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this
action occurred.

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot
If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

[1VegasBowler]

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot
If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

No, because they are not throwing the ball with 2 hands. They are actually releasing the ball with one hand because the front hand is coming off of the ball just before the release.

Where it gets touchy for the 2 handers is when they have a hole drilled where the thumb would be and that counts as a balance hole and if they can't demonstrate the use of that hole, and that opens up another can of worms because these extra holes count against them when it comes to ball count.

[bowl1820]

Would the rule be talking about a between the legs 2 handed granny throw type shot ? The shot I was talking about uses a standard approach and backswing just looping behind your back and forward release through the legs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6jIFofptM

This is the shot

AFAIK if your normally delivering your ball from your side, if you then at some point deliver it between your legs (either one handed or two) it would be illegal. Because you changed or deviated from your normal delivery, which was from your side originally.

If this is Illegal then wouldn't every "2handed" bowler that releases with one hand and throws at spares with a conventional throw would also be illegal ?

Here's how the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 118b addresses that:

118b/3 A bowler is using the two-handed approach. The bowler’s dominant hand is the right hand. Can the bowler use the right hand for spares?
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominate hand, the bowler did not change delivery and, therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.

FYI: Between me and the other 3 guys who did it we undoubtedly have done it 100's or 1000's of times going back over 20 years and have never had anyone say anything about it or protest it, and yes we have (not often) thrown our strike ball like this, and gotten strikes.

I've seen it done also and nobody has protested it, but it was usually done when it didn't matter so nobody cared.

It's one of those things, nobody cares about until you do it at the wrong time and/or in front of the wrong person.

To me if you want to do trick shots, be safe wait till after scoring ends.

[Tony]

AFAIK if your normally delivering your ball from your side, if you then at some point deliver it between your legs (either one handed or two) it would be illegal. Because you changed or deviated from your normal delivery, which was from your side originally.



Here's how the Commonly Asked Questions for Rule 118b addresses that:

118b/3 A bowler is using the two-handed approach. The bowler’s dominant hand is the right hand. Can the bowler use the right hand for spares?
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominate hand, the bowler did not change delivery and, therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.



I've seen it done also and nobody has protested it, but it was usually done when it didn't matter so nobody cared.

It's one of those things, nobody cares about until you do it at the wrong time and/or in front of the wrong person.

To me if you want to do trick shots, be safe wait till after scoring ends.

I don't generally bowl in anything other than regular league play. Since I've seen it and done it so many times against so many bowlers without an issue I'll continue as long as I can still do it. I would deem it a frivolous rule because there is no advantage in doing it.
Heck they even wrote an exception so the 2 handed style players could deviate without penalty ......

[Aslan]

The only logical thing to do when reaching that conclusion is to give away ones bowling equipment to some sucker who hasn't seen the light yet and still thinks they love the game of bowling.

Hey!! That was me.

Mike, I "get it"...and you are not alone...many people have come back to bowling after an injury or long time away...only to find the sport on the verge of collapse...as it has been for 40 years. And between the two of us, we could probably come up with easily 100 reasons why bowling sucks now compared to 1964....or even 1984.

Some people can make that transition...some people can't. I'm more like you than you give me credit for...as I said many times...I'm only bowling until my lifetime average catches up with my current average. At that point, I will have nowhere to go but down...and I bowl for the sport and the challenge...not as something to do while getting drunk or as a way to meet new friends. And by the time that happens...my body will be unable to tolerate the sport...I can just tell. Iceman, Rob, and the other older guys...God love em...they may be struggling to bowl as they approach 70...but thats 30 years of bowling that I doubt I have left in the tank. I can't see my knee lasting that long...nor my elbow.

As I think I stated already i came back to the sport with high expectations.

Then thats good news...the problem isn't you can't bowl...the problem is you had unrealistic expectations.

Start setting better goals, acheiving those goals, then setting new ones. But, if you set those goals outlandishly too high...don't be too sad when you fail to acheive them. Everyone in business (except maybe Motiv) understands that the keys to success are having measurable and achievable goals.

I'm trying too hard...and let the ball do the work.

Hard to learn how to relax and let the ball do the work...still working on that myself.

My biggest issue is that I actually aim at nothing..

Thats not good. Hard to make a shot go where you want if you're not projecting it down the lane. I tried targeting the dots for a bit...to help stop my lofting problem...it negatively affected my game because where I look is where I release to. If I look too far away...I often will end up lofting it to that spot (like playing horseshoes). BUT...if I aim too close...TOO close...like the dots or foul line...I just drop the ball and have no follow-through.

Back when you posted a video (mid Sept) I commented that you appeared to have a balance issue.

It's 'possible' to aim at the foul line and be successful (Wes Malott does it)...but you have to have a perfect and consistent swing...because there's no way to slightly adjust for that in the follow-through...AND...you need to learn to follow-through...even after the ball has left your sight....all kinds of challenges targeting that soon...but if it's a medical issue...thats what ya got to work with.

In bowling, you have to get to a finishing position. In order to post that shot, in that finishing position...you need balance. When you're in position, balanced, and your form is solid...much of your power and the ultimate power of the shot comes from the leverage of that position. Being out of balance and falling off your shot...you 'can' still strike if your swing is good and in line and you hit your mark, etc...but usually "no".

Fix the balance (medication, surgery, etc...) and you'll be surprised how much your game will improve.

P.S. Contact Iceman...he knows a magical wizard/pharmacologist that has magical elixers that cure almost anything...sure he has one for balance problems and/or vertigo.

[bowl1820]

I don't generally bowl in anything other than regular league play. Since I've seen it and done it so many times against so many bowlers without an issue I'll continue as long as I can still do it.

Which is fine, You just have to remember that it could become a issue at some point.

I would deem it a frivolous rule because there is no advantage in doing it.

Depends on what you consider a advantage.

Someone watching might say "hey look" he's throwing the ball between his legs, he's trying to lower his average, he's sandbagging because he's not trying to bowl well. He doesn't do that on position night or when bowling the first place team etc.

Heck they even wrote an exception so the 2 handed style players could deviate without penalty ......

As for that, Well the USBC is the ruling body and that's their ruling.

[classygranny]

In bowling, you have to get to a finishing position. In order to post that shot, in that finishing position...you need balance. When you're in position, balanced, and your form is solid...much of your power and the ultimate power of the shot comes from the leverage of that position. Being out of balance and falling off your shot...you 'can' still strike if your swing is good and in line and you hit your mark, etc...but usually "no".

Fix the balance (medication, surgery, etc...) and you'll be surprised how much your game will improve.

P.S. Contact Iceman...he knows a magical wizard/pharmacologist that has magical elixers that cure almost anything...sure he has one for balance problems and/or vertigo.

There was a great video of a balance exercise - not sure if on this site or somewhere else on the internet. Basically, you start with putting one foot in front like a step and balance for 4-5 seconds, then the next foot, then next for about 4-5 steps. Then you add a little knee bend and do the same thing, the you add a little arm swing. Can't remember it all but I do some of it when I remember to. Hopefully, one of the gurus on here saw it and can locate and post for us. I wish I had saved it at the time.

[fordman1]

Come on Granny this is bowling not Ballet. Bowlers are big burly guys with big belly's. We drink beer and try to make America great again.

Sorry I apologize. It is just that I would hurt my self trying to do that stuff.