The key is when the ball is turned. Most league bowlers turn the ball early and are on the side or the top of the ball at the line. The difference with PDW and many other pros is that they turn through the ball, rather than around it.
If I was techy I'd post a picture of the position of PDW of which I'm talking about. I may not have explained it well, my bad. when the ball still by his trail leg, the elbow/arm beside his body, his hand is still behind the ball, not on right of the ball.Originally Posted by Mike White
The key is when the ball is turned. Most league bowlers turn the ball early and are on the side or the top of the ball at the line. The difference with PDW and many other pros is that they turn through the ball, rather than around it.
Both of these are a combination of what I was going to say in response to Mike's picture.
1) PDW's hand position doesn't turn nearly as soon as the OP's. The OP is already on the outside of the ball before it gets to his ankle on the downswing.
2) The OP (if you watch the follow-through) isn't swinging through the ball as much as he's swinging 'around' it.
And yes, while some of the old timers and PBA50 stars still use more axis rotation and more "hitting up" than their younger counterparts; I don't think thats what they'd do (nor teach) if they were instructing a new bowler. Older bowlers are used to hitting up on the ball and a more 90 degree axis rotation. It feels natural to them. And if they have Hall of Fame skills...they can modify that and make it work on the PBA50 and some PBA events. And thats where every bowler is going to be a bit different. Young-young adult...you probably start from scratch and teach the "right" way. Older bowlers...you try to teach the "right" way...but also utilize whatever they are already doing naturally.
And then it depends on what that bowler's goals are. I coulda quit taking lessons a year ago if my goal was to bowl better on league night. The reason I mention that is; as I start to reach for higher and higher goals...some of the things in my swing/release/approach are going to need to change...because I'm not WRW nor Norm Duke nor Pete Weber. I can't "do it wrong" and still expect to be competitive because I lack the high-level natural ability.
Bowlers have a common misperception (I forgot this for my pet peave list)...that there is "no right way" to bowl. That is 98% misleading/wrong. It would be like me saying that I'm going to ignore every single lesson or piece of advice or instruction that I have received regarding my miserable golf game....because John Daly hits it 400 yards and I want to be just like John Daly...so I'm just going to try and swing like him. Horrible mistake....and one that will cause you to chase your damn golf balls 3 holes over and go through about 15 golf balls that go out of bounds or in the water. There IS a "right way" to bowl. The USBC updates this "right way" from time to time. I said "98%"....because there are going to be about 2% of the population that will bowl "quirky"...usually because of a physical limitation or a really old habit or an injury...and they will bowl at a high level. That doesn't make it ideal. Saying everyone should throw their strike ball at corner pin spares because Norm Duke does...is that same logic. 2% do it well...so I'm going to do THAT! Same thing with WRW's swing. Love WRW...have watched nearly every video of the guy bowling...cheer for him against anyone he ever faces...but trying to emulate his throw is trying to hit that 2% window. And the list goes on and on... You want to bowl 2-handed because Belmo is awesome? Okay...but realize Belmo is not only in that top 2%...he's probably more like top 0.5%. Most two-handers will just end up doing WORSE than had they learned to bowl the "right way". Some will go on to be the next Osku or Kyle Troup...but most will just give up on bowling altogether because bowling 2-handed is rough on the back and isn't that "magic wand" that suddenly makes you a PBA pro.
I don't have enough information on the OP to instruct him...nor am I qualified to do so...I can only assume that since he posted the video and asked for assistance...that he was open to changing his game to improve. Keeping that hand behind the ball longer...is the most obvious. Much of what he's doing is actually pretty good.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.4mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
Which style would you say is best for longevity? I have read that the two handers are not going to last but what about the old or new styles?
I can't see E. J. Tackett throwing the ball the way he does when he is 40.
EJ will adapt just like PDW did. When Pete was 17 and joined the tour, his backswing was straight over his head at the top. Add to that he cranked the plastic Columbia 300 he used as hard as he could for years. Watch him now and he's relatively tame compared to his early career.
Some very interesting things here.
1.) Bowlers said the same things about Amleto in the eighties. Where did it get him? He still a dominant force on the PBA50 Tour, despite his high backswing and turning the cr*p out of the ball.
2.) Pete changed his style for one reason, and one reason only: it was the only way that he could win with reactive resin balls. He went three years without a win until he adapted.
3.) Hopefully EJ won't have to find out if he can still throw the ball like he does when he's 40. I have a hunch he'll switch to golf long before then, and make some real money!
Yep, they keep mentioning EJ is a heck of a golfer. Of course it's a lot harder to get on the PGA tour unless you're elite so probably why EJ is sticking to bowling now but if he can I say go for it. $1M+ purses vs $50K
fokai73, Great information.. Thank you for taking the time. I've seen that in my videos before and its definitely something that has plagued me. In drills I do it fine, but as soon as I get to a full approach I turn early or end up with a spinner release.. There doesn't seem to be the in-between that I'm looking for. I'll try just focusing on the index finger balance and work on my setup to take the ball weight out of my bowling arm. THX
no problem sir. but to be honest, it's best to find a qualified coach. I've seen many (well known) coaches over the years and most didn't address why I turned my hand early. Well, let me rephrase that. They didn't really explain why I did it and what really causes early turn. Some did tell me to do certain drills, or thought process, or things like these - lead with ring finger, elbow facing the target, etc....Anyway, those tips didn't really solve my problem or tell me the cause. To make a long story short, two other coaches pointed out my "dip" in the first part of my approach. My "crouching tiger, hidden dragon" approach lol. These two coaches have their philosophy about the physical game, but in the end, both were right. Only one of them explained it completely and I finally understood.
In addition to what I've learned from them, I also studied my own physiology. For example, my elbow position facing forward in relation to my hand position at a relaxed state. Likewise, my hand in an Anterior position or palm facing forward (hand at 6 0'clock behind the ball), my elbow is actually facing away and right of my target when I'm behind the ball. For example: If my palm is facing the head pin, my elbow is actually facing the 6-10 pins. by knowing this, I can "feel" when I threw it right and when I don't. It almost Feels like I threw a back up ball. So........ on the down swing, I focus on leading with the inside of my elbow. I feel it.
I've invested a lot on coaches over the years because I had a goal, a mission when I was single. That changed 10-11 years ago lol. I still spend the money on coaching for the purpose of learning. NO more big goals in bowling since I settled down, but I love to learn. Everyday we should try to learn something new. learning is like adding coals onto trains to power up those engines. You have to keep adding coals to keep the train moving....
Last edited by fokai73; 10-25-2016 at 01:32 AM.
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