Does this make any sense?

[1VegasBowler]

This MAY be true if they give you a fresh pattern. Try it Saturday afternoon after families have bowled with bumpers. Even the manager said the shot goes away after the oil has transitioned. This is not unusual for Texas, Suncoast, Gold Coast and Orleans.

I play on fresh patterns at Texas Station and The Orleans.

I've played at Goal Coast and it has the longest pattern (it did last winter) at 42ft. The oil isn't the problem there, it's elsewhere.

[RobLV1]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I have bowled with both of you, and you both exemplify my original thought. Neither of you will vary far inside from the second arrow, so you are both retreating to the comfort zone of talking about pattern lengths, oil types, etc.. It's interesting how many seven pins are missed to the right by right handed bowlers using very aggressive bowling balls and trying to hook them through the puddle in the middle at any of the centers you mention. It's on the outside of the pattern that all of the usual thinking applies, not in the middle.

[1VegasBowler]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I have bowled with both of you, and you both exemplify my original thought. Neither of you will vary far inside from the second arrow, so you are both retreating to the comfort zone of talking about pattern lengths, oil types, etc.. It's interesting how many seven pins are missed to the right by right handed bowlers using very aggressive bowling balls and trying to hook them through the puddle in the middle at any of the centers you mention. It's on the outside of the pattern that all of the usual thinking applies, not in the middle.

It has been quite a while since we've bowled together, and I am quite different now than before.

The normal conditions we encounter don't require me to to go any farther than playing 15-10. I also have 4 more balls to choose from now compared to then, and all with different dual angle drillings.

There are the rare occasions where playing 20-15, 20-10, 25-15 or 25-10 can be advantageous for me. I can also adjust my speeds and my wrist as well. And now that my elbow is killing me, using my 14lb balls are pretty much out of the question for now.

My comfort zone has expanded and I'm not afraid to change what I'm doing in the middle of the game.

I certainly won't profess that I'm better than anybody because I know I'm not. But by making myself more versatile, my comfort zone has expanded along with my confidence.

How will this equate to a good showing at the PBA 50 Regional I'll attend in March? After knowing what the pattern is, I hope it turns out well because it's going to get extremely difficult after the 2nd or 3rd game.

[RobLV1]

My point was that those of you who I know fairly well all immediately reverted to your comfort zones not on the lanes, but in the concepts in which you believe. You and Chuck to discussions about pattern lengths and oil types, and bowl1820 into research and analysis. My whole point with this thread and with much of my writing is to try and get bowlers to think outside the box in terms of their base beliefs about the game. The game has changed so much in the past twenty years, and I see, on a daily basis, how beliefs that bowlers stubbornly cling to, keep them from attaining their goals in the sport. A perfect example is the idea of carry down. Bowlers adamantly refuse to acknowledge that carry down is rarely a factor in determining ball reaction in modern bowling, because to do so, would be to question their very beliefs about the sport. I can't tell you how many times I've had discussions with bowlers on the subject where I've quoted the scientific testing the proves what I'm saying, only to hear, "Well, you have your opinion, but I believe that carry down is still a factor in determining ball reaction." This is equivalent to, "Well, I've seen the photographs from the space station, but I still believe the world is flat." I really don't care whether bowlers continue to believe that you can designate bowling balls as being best suited for heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil. What I do care about is their willingness to question their long-standing beliefs, because they might have changed.

[Tony]

I can understand the point you are after, moving away from old outdated logic, but I wonder then, have you given thought on a new, better more valuable way to rate and categorize the balls, that would be more useful to the average bowler trying to choose new equipment ?

[RobLV1]

I can understand the point you are after, moving away from old outdated logic, but I wonder then, have you given thought on a new, better more valuable way to rate and categorize the balls, that would be more useful to the average bowler trying to choose new equipment ?

I've been writing about a better way for years. It entails learning the basics about cores: symmetry, RG, Differential, and overall shape. It also entails accepting the practice of limiting your layouts to one or two, and developing a willingness to change the surface of the ball to get the exact reaction that you are looking for, and accepting that there is very little difference between solid, pearl, and hybrid versions of the same cover material. Once you have done this, choose a ball based on the core, use your standard layout, and change the surface to tailor the reaction, and you're on your way.

[1VegasBowler]

I wasn't trying to be cranky or to start an argument in any way my friend.

But when it comes to changing the surface of the ball when you only have a couple of balls can be tricky, and it's one of the things I don't like to do. And depending on who you speak with, you'll get pros and cons about it.

Of the 7 that I have, the only surface I don't really have is a 1000.

The problem that arises with changing the surface, is, you can't make the changes during competition, and depending on how many games you have to bowl makes it almost impossible.

We know what's going to happen during league play, so it becomes a non-issue. But what about during tournament play? This is where it becomes impossible.

Whether it's 3, 4, 6, 8 or more games you have to bowl, making a surface change isn't going to happen. While the USBC does allow changes between games in certain tournaments, the time that it takes to do so isn't realistic for it to happen. And the PBA doesn't allow it to happen at any time during competition.

I'm just of the opinion, that, it is easier to change you ball than it is to change the surface.

[RobLV1]

Judging by your comment that of the seven you have, the only surface that you don't have is 1000, I really think that you are missing the point. You don't need every different surface unless you have seven of the same bowling ball. I'm also not recommending constantly changing your surfaces, unless you find, as I have that certain centers respond better to more surface, and others respond to less. No, the idea is to take whatever ball you buy, based on the core characteristics, use your standard layout, a adjust the surface to one that works on the ball for you. Personally, I don't think I have any ball with more than a 3000 abrasion surface on it, just because with my ball speed and rotation, more surface doesn't work. If I came upon a condition where I needed more surface, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to put more on.

[1VegasBowler]

My first out of the bag at the Orleans and Texas are the Ultimate Nirvana and Vandal Smash. While both are at 4000, one is drilled pin down.

With my elbow hurting me now I have to use my 12 pounders, so I start with my Thug Unruly which is at 2000. And if I need to change, I can go to my original Vandal which is 500 with compound.

If I was smart, I would use the original Vandal from start to finish because it doesn't over read the friction and I can play the 10 all night without any problems. I'll know more during the 10 min of practice when I bowl Wednesday night.

[J Anderson]

My point was that those of you who I know fairly well all immediately reverted to your comfort zones not on the lanes, but in the concepts in which you believe. You and Chuck to discussions about pattern lengths and oil types, and bowl1820 into research and analysis. My whole point with this thread and with much of my writing is to try and get bowlers to think outside the box in terms of their base beliefs about the game. The game has changed so much in the past twenty years, and I see, on a daily basis, how beliefs that bowlers stubbornly cling to, keep them from attaining their goals in the sport. A perfect example is the idea of carry down. Bowlers adamantly refuse to acknowledge that carry down is rarely a factor in determining ball reaction in modern bowling, because to do so, would be to question their very beliefs about the sport. I can't tell you how many times I've had discussions with bowlers on the subject where I've quoted the scientific testing the proves what I'm saying, only to hear, "Well, you have your opinion, but I believe that carry down is still a factor in determining ball reaction." This is equivalent to, "Well, I've seen the photographs from the space station, but I still believe the world is flat." I really don't care whether bowlers continue to believe that you can designate bowling balls as being best suited for heavy oil, medium oil, or light oil. What I do care about is their willingness to question their long-standing beliefs, because they might have changed.

In previous posts you have cited one article by Joe Slowinski, which cites one study done at the Kegel training center. As I understand it, in medecine, a scientific breakthrough, a new drug or a new method of treatment is not accepted on the basis of a single study, but must be verified by other independant studies.

While I have generally had good results moving in to find more oil and advising others to move in to use the oil left in the middle of the lane, in my area there are still leagues where enough bowlers are using plastic and urethane to make the statement that there is no such thing as carrydown false.