This ball is just not right for me - what next?

[RobLV1]

Even when they come from the same manufacturer, different brands of balls utilize different formulations for their cover materials. Over the years, I have had a lot of success with Storm balls, and very little success with Roto Grip balls. The reason is the difference in the amount of mid-lane read between the brands. Because I have a lot of forward roll in my release, the additional mid-lane read in Roto Grip balls results in balls that roll out for me. The important thing about bowling balls is to understand the differences: both what is known because of manufacturer transparancy (core numbers and surface preparation) and what is only learned through experience: primarily the difference between cover materials.

[NewToBowling]

Even when they come from the same manufacturer, different brands of balls utilize different formulations for their cover materials. Over the years, I have had a lot of success with Storm balls, and very little success with Roto Grip balls. The reason is the difference in the amount of mid-lane read between the brands. Because I have a lot of forward roll in my release, the additional mid-lane read in Roto Grip balls results in balls that roll out for me. The important thing about bowling balls is to understand the differences: both what is known because of manufacturer transparancy (core numbers and surface preparation) and what is only learned through experience: primarily the difference between cover materials.

Just wondering how cohesive Storm and Roto Grip work together. Did Storm buy Roto Grip or was Roto Grip always under the arm (and thus an extension) of Storm.

[Amyers]

Even when they come from the same manufacturer, different brands of balls utilize different formulations for their cover materials. Over the years, I have had a lot of success with Storm balls, and very little success with Roto Grip balls. The reason is the difference in the amount of mid-lane read between the brands. Because I have a lot of forward roll in my release, the additional mid-lane read in Roto Grip balls results in balls that roll out for me. The important thing about bowling balls is to understand the differences: both what is known because of manufacturer transparancy (core numbers and surface preparation) and what is only learned through experience: primarily the difference between cover materials.

That's interesting didn't really know there was a major difference between covers between Storm and Roto but now that you mention it a lot of rotogrips stuff does seem to have an earlier roll. How would you compare that to Brunswick? Who tends to hook a little more in oil.

[RobLV1]

I really don't know the background history of Roto Grip and Storm, but they have always had a separate brand identity and a different ball reaction.

As to Roto Grip as compared to Brunswick, both are known for their mid lane roll, but Roto tends to be snappier on the back end. Brunswick cores historically are more center-heavy and early rolling.

[KYDave]

Roto Grip was around way before Storm. That being said, I'm not sure when they came together.

I am a big fan of changing surface. I've done it so much now after getting my own spinner it's even less of a big deal. Even balls I keep at factory I will touch up on a schedule. Heck I even have a binder and each ball has its own tab lol.

Taxexpert- Glad you found something that works better for you!!

[Aslan]

The Asylum you had was in my opinion poorly laid out. I've never understood why the Defiant Edge didn't work for you. Unfortunately not much to learn there as they are two totally different balls with different purposes other than maybe you shouldn't buy RG balls but they make good equipment so that's not it.

Drilling layout is one of the most 'minor' effects on ball motion. Most amateurs would be hard-pressed to see any effect by moving the pin around. PSOs tend to "over-rate" drilling layouts...because it's the one thing they can actually control/offer the consumer during the drilling process. Throwing a sanded, solid ball with a low RG...you can lay it out however you want...it's gonna roll out on wood lanes.

I have never understood your take on this. So if you resurface the ball to a different surface you understand that it requires upkeep and maintenance to maintain it but how is the OOB surface any different? I'm guessing somehow the OOB surface on bowling balls is magical and doesn't require the same?

I misspoke a little bit.
As Bowl1820 posted in another thread...balls lose surface over the course of use. So if you have a 500 surface...that becomes a 1400, 1700, 2000, 2300, 3100, 3500, etc... over time. So, you DO need to perform surface maintenance over time if you want to maintain an OOB surface. And SURFACE...is the #1 factor in ball motion....that's been proven again and again.

Where we "disagree"...is the use of surface on a regular basis to try and make adjustments to ball reaction.
1) True surface manipulation requires a ball spinner....which < 2% of bowlers have access to...without paying $3-$35 a pop. If you want a different surface for each league you're in...each week...you could pay out $40 a week for that service. Over the course of a league...thats $800. You could buy an entire arsenal for that money.
2) If you're relying on surface, to keep your ball from acting a certain way...it begs the question..."why not get a ball that works the way you want it to...with only minimal surfacing upkeep?" Like, if I played on a very long, PBA animal pattern...and I really needed a sanded, RG Hyper Cell...but instead bought a Storm Ride. Could I surface the Ride to make it work? Sure. You could sand it down to 180...make the layout as aggressive as possible, etc... BUT...you'd have to maintain that surface every week...and it probably still wouldn't be as ideal (in terms of power/carry) as the sanded Hyper Cell.

I look at surfacing as mostly a "maintenance" task. If you have a ball...and you need a "tweek" to it's reaction...you can touch it up with some stronger or duller surface...depending on what you need. But to buy a ball that is non-ideal...then try to surface it to make it ideal...is like those kids that buy Honda Civics and add loud mufflers, nitro, and spoilers to the back. Might have just been better to by a Mustang if you wanted a fast car.

[LOUVIT]

I know what you are feeling, When I won my Storm Phaze from here I thought I was set. A week before that I bought a Track Heat, after many re drillings and other things I despise the Phaze but keep trying to make it work. This is not saying it's a bad ball at all it moves strong for sure but the 2 balls are drilled identical yet I can't release the Phaze like the Track....Have the PSO watch you throw the 2 balls, you may like I think I am treating them differently?

[taxexpert2]

An update to all of you who might be interested in this thread. It has taken me some time and input from a very knowledgeable bowling alley coach to finally get the right grip on both my 14# Vandal Smash and Hyroad. I can now honestly say this was a good move for me to make althought it has come with a lot of self doubt and questioning as to whether or not I should even be bowling. Where I bowl there are three brothers who take care of the place and the bowlers. One of them is a certified coach and he watches as ppl bowl and offers input when he sees things that are wrong. He gave me the best tip I have ever gotten - keep your elbow in. Don't really know what I was doing but after making this change my average is going back up rapidly. So, if you are wondering where to start - one place to start is by keeping your elbow in.

[Amyers]

Drilling layout is one of the most 'minor' effects on ball motion. Most amateurs would be hard-pressed to see any effect by moving the pin around. PSOs tend to "over-rate" drilling layouts...because it's the one thing they can actually control/offer the consumer during the drilling process. Throwing a sanded, solid ball with a low RG...you can lay it out however you want...it's gonna roll out on wood lanes..

First off sorry must have missed this reply. While I agree the drilling is far down the scale after surface, cover, and core it can easily make a problem worse. If you have a ball that you were going to have a hard time getting into a roll and the driller uses a layout to promote length it's certainly going to make the situation worse and the opposite for an early rolling ball.

I misspoke a little bit.
As Bowl1820 posted in another thread...balls lose surface over the course of use. So if you have a 500 surface...that becomes a 1400, 1700, 2000, 2300, 3100, 3500, etc... over time. So, you DO need to perform surface maintenance over time if you want to maintain an OOB surface. And SURFACE...is the #1 factor in ball motion....that's been proven again and again.

Where we "disagree"...is the use of surface on a regular basis to try and make adjustments to ball reaction.
1) True surface manipulation requires a ball spinner....which < 2% of bowlers have access to...without paying $3-$35 a pop. If you want a different surface for each league you're in...each week...you could pay out $40 a week for that service. Over the course of a league...thats $800. You could buy an entire arsenal for that money.
2) If you're relying on surface, to keep your ball from acting a certain way...it begs the question..."why not get a ball that works the way you want it to...with only minimal surfacing upkeep?" Like, if I played on a very long, PBA animal pattern...and I really needed a sanded, RG Hyper Cell...but instead bought a Storm Ride. Could I surface the Ride to make it work? Sure. You could sand it down to 180...make the layout as aggressive as possible, etc... BUT...you'd have to maintain that surface every week...and it probably still wouldn't be as ideal (in terms of power/carry) as the sanded Hyper Cell.

I look at surfacing as mostly a "maintenance" task. If you have a ball...and you need a "tweek" to it's reaction...you can touch it up with some stronger or duller surface...depending on what you need. But to buy a ball that is non-ideal...then try to surface it to make it ideal...is like those kids that buy Honda Civics and add loud mufflers, nitro, and spoilers to the back. Might have just been better to by a Mustang if you wanted a fast car.

I don't know that I've ever advocated changing the base surface for a ball weekly between leagues and yes that would only make sense if you owned a spinner and even then would likely be more work than I'd go to. If you need a Hyper Cell and buy a Ride your an idiot and surfacing can't fix your problems. Even with additional surface you may be able to get the Ride to perform better it will never be what Hyper Cell is.

If you make a permeant change to the surface maintaining the new surface is no more expensive or trouble than maintaining the OOB surface. As far as maintain what the manufacturer intended for the ball I used to put some stock in that unfortunately I've come to realize the manufacturers simply put whatever they think will sell best on the balls. It's why we see balls that are simply terrible ideas from the start much like Storms Optimus Solid. Bowlers who wait for the manufacture to introduce a solid of the pearl release or the opposite have s screw loose buy the ball and fix it to what you want.

[fordman1]

Anyone who says they have never bought a ball that isn't what they expected is lying. It happens to everyone. If you are lucky they can fix it. If not ask some friends you bowl with if you can try their ball during practice. Probably won't fit but might help some. It is a shame that it is such an expensive mistake.