2 handed debate thread

[chip82901]

Show me some proof that 2 handers are growing the sport.

Look at your youth leagues, look at how many up and coming 2-handers are on the tour...it's gaining an interest. Hell, just in my home house in a town of 24,000 people, where our leagues have been down for YEARS, we gained 3 new 2 handers in our men's league, all of them under the age of 25. Our association has a whopping 200 people maybe between the men and women, and maybe another 100 youth. Of that 100 youth, I'd guess probably 25 of them bowl with 2 hands. Now, if it were banned, how many of these people would be bowling? If it were banned, you'd lose 25% of the kids we had. That's 25% less involvement at the youth level. Which translates into 25% less once they reach adult leagues...Which translates into...well, you should get the point by now

[Amyers]

Look at your youth leagues, look at how many up and coming 2-handers are on the tour...it's gaining an interest. Hell, just in my home house in a town of 24,000 people, where our leagues have been down for YEARS, we gained 3 new 2 handers in our men's league, all of them under the age of 25. Our association has a whopping 200 people maybe between the men and women, and maybe another 100 youth. Of that 100 youth, I'd guess probably 25 of them bowl with 2 hands. Now, if it were banned, how many of these people would be bowling? If it were banned, you'd lose 25% of the kids we had. That's 25% less involvement at the youth level. Which translates into 25% less once they reach adult leagues...Which translates into...well, you should get the point by now

That tells you the style is being adopted not how many of those would have bowled conventionally if not for the style

[fordman1]

I received an email from the USBC last week it was a survey asking questions about bowling. One question was do you approve of two handed bowlers. Or maybe it was would you ban them. It was a rather long survey and I don't think I saved it.
Sure would like to see the results.
Oh yea ban them was my vote.

[drlawsoniii]

That tells you the style is being adopted not how many of those would have bowled conventionally if not for the style

Amyers that's been my point all along thank you for putting it better than I did.

[Brite1]

I guess I don't understand the notion that two handed bowling should be banned. Feels to me like people wanting it to be banned are just jealous of the fact that someone is bowling better than themselves. If you truly think there is such an advantage to bowling two handed, take the time to learn the style. Saying it should be banned is acting like a 5 year old saying that person shouldn't be able to do that because I can't figure it out and they're better than me doing it.

The way I look at it, there are advantages disadvantages to both two handed and traditional one handed bowling. It should be a choice each bowler is aloud to make themselves and not something that is decided for them. Ultimately banning it has a high likelihood of decreasing interest in bowling because a lot of younger people think it looks neat or cool and that is what they will gravitate towards. Granted, if it's banned some may still choose to bowl in a traditional manner but I feel for the most part they won't.

PS, I'm a 26 year old traditional style bowler. So it's not like I'm trying to advocate for two handed bowling as something I do. My thought is why turn anyone who could be a potential future bowler for life(or as long as they physically can) away. Seems foolish.

[chip82901]

I received an email from the USBC last week it was a survey asking questions about bowling. One question was do you approve of two handed bowlers. Or maybe it was would you ban them. It was a rather long survey and I don't think I saved it.
Sure would like to see the results.
Oh yea ban them was my vote.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on why it should be banned. USBC has already limited my equipment range. I can't throw anything I had drilled prior to the 2016 season without plugging it and redrilling it due to their lovely 1 hole outside of gripping hole nonsense. I understand the reasoning for the rule, but it was either plug a bunch of equipment, or buy all new equipment. It forced me to adjust my layout due to the center of grip being the bridge now, instead of where it would be if I used my thumb, which changed my PAP. Either way I went (I went with new equipment), I was going to be forced to spend a few hundred just to make it legal for me to throw a ball. I see zero advantage honestly in being a 2-hander. What? A higher rev rate? The average 2-hander, if they put a TON of revs on the ball, MIGHT BE at 400rpm. There are PLENTY of pros on tour that are right there, if not more (Tackett, Sean Rash, Ciminelli, Kent, Malott, BJ Moore, the Tang bros, Rhino..just to name a few). Plus, we get ZERO aid in our release, while there are NUMEROUS robo-wrists out there. So please, lets hear your reasoning

[Amyers]

I guess I don't understand the notion that two handed bowling should be banned. Feels to me like people wanting it to be banned are just jealous of the fact that someone is bowling better than themselves. If you truly think there is such an advantage to bowling two handed, take the time to learn the style. Saying it should be banned is acting like a 5 year old saying that person shouldn't be able to do that because I can't figure it out and they're better than me doing it.

The way I look at it, there are advantages disadvantages to both two handed and traditional one handed bowling. It should be a choice each bowler is aloud to make themselves and not something that is decided for them. Ultimately banning it has a high likelihood of decreasing interest in bowling because a lot of younger people think it looks neat or cool and that is what they will gravitate towards. Granted, if it's banned some may still choose to bowl in a traditional manner but I feel for the most part they won't.

PS, I'm a 26 year old traditional style bowler. So it's not like I'm trying to advocate for two handed bowling as something I do. My thought is why turn anyone who could be a potential future bowler for life(or as long as they physically can) away. Seems foolish.

I don't believe that it should be banned currently the genies out of the bottle at this point and it would hurt bowling to prohibit it now. I do believe the sport made a major mistake in not banning it 15 years ago in the early stages of it's adoption.

I know two handers that I'm a lot better than and I know some who can wipe the lanes with me. It's not an animosity towards them that fuels my opinion on the style. It's not the first time that an unconventional style has been introduced to a sport. Take side arm pitchers or knuckle ballers both legal in baseball but the trade offs to the style have to equal or it would take over. It's my opinion we maybe seeing this in bowling the advantages are to great for the trade offs. If we reach the point that 50% of the tour bowls this way I know I'll lose interest.

If I were 20 again I would probably pick the style up as you suggest at 43 it's really not an option. That's one of the trade offs people in their 20's aren't considering while I don't agree with Aslan that most people will be broken down and the age of 40 to be able to do it I do not believe that many will be able to maintain that style into their 50s and 60s as many bowlers do. In many of my current leagues If I eliminated bowlers over 50 I wouldn't have to worry about lane courtesy. I doubt those 2 handed bowlers will be any more willing tow relearn how to bowl conventionally than I am to change today.

I know many of you feel it's adding interest to the sport but in the long term your watching it's demise. A handful of 2 handers on league night results in some grumbling and these are the early adopters coming up now. 5-10 years from now when you see the results of these guys who grew up throwing the ball this way with proper coaching being 20-30% of the league conventional bowlers will quit in droves and as those 2 hand bowlers age they will retire from the sport much more quickly than the previous generation.

[Brite1]

I don't believe that it should be banned currently the genies out of the bottle at this point and it would hurt bowling to prohibit it now. I do believe the sport made a major mistake in not banning it 15 years ago in the early stages of it's adoption.

I know two handers that I'm a lot better than and I know some who can wipe the lanes with me. It's not an animosity towards them that fuels my opinion on the style. It's not the first time that an unconventional style has been introduced to a sport. Take side arm pitchers or knuckle ballers both legal in baseball but the trade offs to the style have to equal or it would take over. It's my opinion we maybe seeing this in bowling the advantages are to great for the trade offs. If we reach the point that 50% of the tour bowls this way I know I'll lose interest.

If I were 20 again I would probably pick the style up as you suggest at 43 it's really not an option. That's one of the trade offs people in their 20's aren't considering while I don't agree with Aslan that most people will be broken down and the age of 40 to be able to do it I do not believe that many will be able to maintain that style into their 50s and 60s as many bowlers do. In many of my current leagues If I eliminated bowlers over 50 I wouldn't have to worry about lane courtesy. I doubt those 2 handed bowlers will be any more willing tow relearn how to bowl conventionally than I am to change today.

I know many of you feel it's adding interest to the sport but in the long term your watching it's demise. A handful of 2 handers on league night results in some grumbling and these are the early adopters coming up now. 5-10 years from now when you see the results of these guys who grew up throwing the ball this way with proper coaching being 20-30% of the league conventional bowlers will quit in droves and as those 2 hand bowlers age they will retire from the sport much more quickly than the previous generation.

I guess I don't quite understand why conventional bowlers will quit in droves. Why should it matter if someone is bowling 2 handed, one handed traditional, between the legs, lefty, righty, or any style? If everyone just works on there own personal game and works to better themselves, that's what should matter. Again, if people are going to up and quit just because others are bowling 2 handed, that is lending to my acting like a 5 year old comment. I understand that may not be what you would do personally Amyers, but the fact that there are those who would just makes it seem like sore losers.

And I completely understand that some older individuals may not have the ability to switch their throwing style, but that's just the nature of sports. You weren't going to see Peyton Manning become a dual threat QB towards the latter part of his career. It's just the nature of growing older and the human body detiorating.

I guess I just think it is odd to say 2 handed bowling should have been banned back 15 years ago or now. Why discourage anything that has the possibility to grow a sport and attract new members. People saying they would leave due to the new style are just acting like the stubborn old individuals(no disrespect intended) who make the younger generation not want to join in the first place.

[drlawsoniii]

I guess I don't quite understand why conventional bowlers will quit in droves. Why should it matter if someone is bowling 2 handed, one handed traditional, between the legs, lefty, righty, or any style? If everyone just works on there own personal game and works to better themselves, that's what should matter. Again, if people are going to up and quit just because others are bowling 2 handed, that is lending to my acting like a 5 year old comment. I understand that may not be what you would do personally Amyers, but the fact that there are those who would just makes it seem like sore losers.

And I completely understand that some older individuals may not have the ability to switch their throwing style, but that's just the nature of sports. You weren't going to see Peyton Manning become a dual threat QB towards the latter part of his career. It's just the nature of growing older and the human body detiorating.

I guess I just think it is odd to say 2 handed bowling should have been banned back 15 years ago or now. Why discourage anything that has the possibility to grow a sport and attract new members. People saying they would leave due to the new style are just acting like the stubborn old individuals(no disrespect intended) who make the younger generation not want to join in the first place.

This goes back to my original point, what data is there that the increase in the interest in bowling is due from the 2 handed bowling style? What percentage of 2 handed bowlers out there would not have started bowling because 2 handed bowling never became a thing. Every argument for 2 handed bowling I've ever heard has revolved around unsupported claims of the growth being due to 2 handers. Bringing in a mechanical catapult and launching the ball toward the pins has the possibility to grow the sport, should we start allowing that too?

[fordman1]

Chipper to be honest I don't give a ship how you throw the ball. But I answered the question asked and to add to it I don't like the new balls reactive makes everyone have a built in hook. It enables bowlers to throw much harder and still get the ball to hook. I also don't like the gutter lofting. Stay on your approach. Bring back the above ground ball returns. I don't like the Pro bowlers on TV getting 30 minutes of practice. And last but not least keep you dirty little A$$ of my Grass. have a nice day!