Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 51

Thread: A bowling misconception that knowledge should outweigh talent ?

  1. #21
    Pin Crusher
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Milwaukee
    Posts
    1,240
    Chats: 0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    If you had ever bowled on a sport pattern, believe me, you would have known it. USBC Nationals are filled with bowlers who "shut up and bowl"... 150!

    Not getting the point......
    Old guy with power (15.5-16; 325). Current arsenal--Storm Summit, RotoGrip Idol Helios, Storm Phaze III, Storm SureLock (retired), Storm IQ Tour Nano and Motiv Rebel tank (spare/dry). High sanctioned game - 300 (4). High sanctioned series - 856. A.V. 300-s - 8. Longest string - 25.
    2023/2024 YTD highs--High game-289; high series-739

  2. #22

    Default

    I was referring to your earlier comment:

    "I have never once in my life walked into a house and asked what pattern they had down. I grab my s**t and throw, and then move. It's never even crossed my mind to find out what the pattern was. I could have been on a sport shot and not known it. I don't care."

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    I don't think that anyone ever said that knowledge alone can make a good bowler. It can't. Likewise, physical skill alone cannot make a good bowler unless you are Pete Weber and constantly have a ball rep at your back ready to help. That being said, physical skill alone can make a good house bowler because the condition is so forgiving that it makes understanding unnecessary.

    As to the coaching comment, a coaches skill is a combination of knowledge, the ability to see, and the ability to communicate; in other words, to teach. Coaches, for the most part, are not very good bowlers for this very reason; we analyze which is detrimental to a top physical game. When you think about it, Mark Baker is the first great coach in a long, long time who was also a great bowler. He happens to have both skill sets. Most of us don't.
    Back in the original post my primary inquiry was, why does it seem in bowling more than other sports that players with more knowledge automatically think they should be better bowlers than others with less knowledge. It a perception I've seen around here and around the bowling center.

    The question was / is why do they have this misconception, after all in most sports people know that knowledge will enhance and improve your game but it's but it's not a substitute for talent, without talent, knowledge is just knowing what and how to do it, but not necessarily being able to do it yourself.

    I have hear all the time how bowler x with several balls and the knowledge to utilize them is pissed off / feels cheated that bowler Y with less knowledge beat hims with an old beat up ball from 10 yrs ago, it's talent, that guy has more than you do, it's pretty much that simple.

    It really had nothing to do with the THS put on the lane, we can't and shouldn't blame everything on the lane condition, the bottom line is bowler y is better on the condition you're bowling on that day, house . sport, pba test pattern than player x .
    When and if the bowl on different conditions the roles might be reversed because talent only takes you so far and the knowledge becomes more important.

    I'm glad with all that wrangling around other issues, we finally got to hear your real thought on the original topic, maybe other people who read the posts will realize that even though they have worked hard to learn more than the other guy, there is no guarantee that you can out perform him, you can use the THS as a scapegoat if you choose but just be aware, you might be the only one buying into your story.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator
    bowl1820's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Central, Florida
    Posts
    6,713
    Blog Entries
    12
    Chats: 554

    Default

    Just something to note, the original topic which basically was knowledge vs natural talent was heavily discussed awhile back. Micheal (Iceman) had his "The Gift!" threads and the responses in those discussions may prove to be of interest.

    Raw Talent vs Coaching
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...nt-vs-Coaching

    If knowledge is power, why........
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...e-is-power-why

    Is it the BALL, or the SKILL of the Bowler
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...-of-the-Bowler

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798

    "Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    Just something to note, the original topic which basically was knowledge vs natural talent was heavily discussed awhile back. Micheal (Iceman) had his "The Gift!" threads and the responses in those discussions may prove to be of interest.

    Raw Talent vs Coaching
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...nt-vs-Coaching

    If knowledge is power, why........
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...e-is-power-why

    Is it the BALL, or the SKILL of the Bowler
    http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads...-of-the-Bowler
    I'm sure they will be an interesting read, Thanks

  6. #26

    Default

    "I'm glad with all that wrangling around other issues, we finally got to hear your real thought on the original topic, maybe other people who read the posts will realize that even though they have worked hard to learn more than the other guy, there is no guarantee that you can out perform him, you can use the THS as a scapegoat if you choose but just be aware, you might be the only one buying into your story."

    Stick around here for a while and you will see that many, many serious bowlers "buy into my story," or you could hang around some PBA events and find that virtually every PBA pro out there also agrees that the forgiving THS has made a mockery of the sport. Most recently, you could take a look at my recent interview with Pete Weber in BTM and hear what he has to say on the subject. As for the need for knowledge, modern bowling demands it, unless as stated earlier you have a ball rep behind you to watch your ball reaction, or you bowl on a THS. Oh, there it is again. Your comments typify the house bowler who doesn't think he needs to understand anything about the game. Ignorance, in your case, truly is bliss!

  7. #27
    Bowling Guru
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    3,501
    Chats: 13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmyb View Post
    I have never once in my life walked into a house and asked what pattern they had down. I grab my s**t and throw, and then move. It's never even crossed my mind to find out what the pattern was. I could have been on a sport shot and not known it. I don't care.

    Maybe this just comes down to "shut up and bowl".
    While I can't say that I've never looked at what the pattern was before bowling, since I have bowled a number of seasons in a sport league and it's put out for us every time the pattern is changed, I don't really spend much time studying it. Pattern graphs and the rule of 31 are only rough guides that give a hint about where you might find a good line to play. The topography of the lane has much more of an effect on how the lane plays than the oil. The other bowlers on a pair and especially what kind of balls they're using has a big effect on how the lane transitions, probably as much or more than the pattern and volume of the oil. One of the key skills of a "good" bowler is knowing how to read the lane. Far more important than looking at pattern graphs or knowing the rule of 31, which is almost always quoted wrong anyway.
    John

  8. #28

    Default

    Am i the only one amazed by rob's comments? Here is a man that touts his silver level credentials to the hilt as someone dedicated to the advancement of bowlers. And yet he insults 99 percent of the bowling population with his comments. What a ambassador for the sport we have here.
    Last edited by fortheloveofbowling; 04-30-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    I don't think that anyone ever said that knowledge alone can make a good bowler. It can't. Likewise, physical skill alone cannot make a good bowler unless you are Pete Weber and constantly have a ball rep at your back ready to help. That being said, physical skill alone can make a good house bowler because the condition is so forgiving that it makes understanding unnecessary.

    As to the coaching comment, a coaches skill is a combination of knowledge, the ability to see, and the ability to communicate; in other words, to teach. Coaches, for the most part, are not very good bowlers for this very reason; we analyze which is detrimental to a top physical game. When you think about it, Mark Baker is the first great coach in a long, long time who was also a great bowler. He happens to have both skill sets. Most of us don't.
    Included in the Bowlers Journal top 100 coaches from 2016 which you seemed to be absent from: Mark Baker, Del Ballard jr, Diandra Asbaty, Carolyn Dorin-Ballard, jason Belmonte, Parker Bohn, Tom Carter, Ryan Ciminelli, Pat Costello, Elysia Current, Jeri edwards, Mike Dias, Mike Jasnau, Bob Learn jr, Kim Kearney, Mark Lewis, Matt Mcniel, Tim Mack, Amleto Monacelli, Michelle Mullen, Paeng Nepomuceno, Carol Norman, Shannon O'keefe, Vern Peterson, Steve Richter, Lucy Sandelin, Mike Shady, Aleta Sill, Bill Spigner, Brad Snell, Brett Spangler, Harry Sullins, Del Warren.

    Are you kidding me????????????? These are all great great bowlers. Educate yourself and look up the names you don't know rob.
    Last edited by fortheloveofbowling; 04-30-2017 at 10:50 PM.

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    I don't think that anyone ever said that knowledge alone can make a good bowler. It can't. Likewise, physical skill alone cannot make a good bowler unless you are Pete Weber and constantly have a ball rep at your back ready to help. That being said, physical skill alone can make a good house bowler because the condition is so forgiving that it makes understanding unnecessary.

    As to the coaching comment, a coaches skill is a combination of knowledge, the ability to see, and the ability to communicate; in other words, to teach. Coaches, for the most part, are not very good bowlers for this very reason; we analyze which is detrimental to a top physical game. When you think about it, Mark Baker is the first great coach in a long, long time who was also a great bowler. He happens to have both skill sets. Most of us don't.
    Who else besides Pete Weber is made a good bowler because of their ball rep at their back? What a ridiculous comment.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •