A bowling misconception that knowledge should outweigh talent ?

[Tony]

It might just be how I look at things but it seems like in bowling more than other sports there is a misconception that knowledge of the game should automatically make you better than the guy with less perceived knowledge.

I will admit, I'm a fair athlete and have some knowledge of the game, I've bowled with and against guys with far more talent and knowledge and also people with far less. Certainly more smarts about the game is to the players advantage, knowing detailed information about oil patterns, different releases, and ball specs and usage will give you an advantage over the equally talented player with less knowledge.

There is a limit to this, natural talent still has to be accounted for and some people just have it, I've seen and heard many times people comment about how the guy is using a old, not well liked ball, doesn't know anything about oil patterns, stands the wrong way, doesn't have the correct posture or follow through, but he gets up there and throws strike after strike , night after night, year after year.

So what makes you think you should be beating him just because you know oil patterns, the latest ball specifications, and have a really great towel that gets off all the oil, and he doesn't even wipe his ball off or have his shoes tied right.

In sports Talent wins every time, if I know more about ball trajectory than Michael Jordan does that make me able to sink 3 pointers like him? It appears that doesn't work and few people would argue that point, but in bowling it seems people think it's different, there are some differences of course MJ doesn't have 500 different balls he can use.


Yes, learn everything you can and it will help make you a better version of yourself, it just won't enable you to beat everyone with less knowledge, you still need talent.
If you have equal talent and more knowledge then that should give you the advantage but you have to have the talent.

I'm sure people will still think their superior knowledge should enable them to beat anyone and while it's great to have knowledge and confidence, it still doesn't outweigh talent.

What do you think ?

[RobLV1]

You have just done a very good job of defining the problem with the typical house shot. The guy who gets up there and throws strike after strike, week after week, year after year thinks he's good because he can do this on a forgiving house pattern. You're right in that you don't need many smarts or much knowledge to bowl on a THS. Go to a real pattern, however, and you better have a good understanding of bowling balls and ball motion or you are going to find out very quickly that you're really not very good at all.

[LOUVIT]

You have just done a very good job of defining the problem with the typical house shot. The guy who gets up there and throws strike after strike, week after week, year after year thinks he's good because he can do this on a forgiving house pattern. You're right in that you don't need many smarts or much knowledge to bowl on a THS. Go to a real pattern, however, and you better have a good understanding of bowling balls and ball motion or you are going to find out very quickly that you're really not very good at all.

Agree and disagree, it you throw a hard straight ball and get pin action the oil patterns do not matter. I have seen people that use house balls and throw straight to the pocket and are more consistent then I'll ever be. They do not have to adjust or switch and don't give a dam where the oil is

[fordman1]

THS isn't the question it is knowledge or athletic ability. Remember the old saying those who can do, those who can't teach. 98% of CERTIFIED bowlers bowl on THS.

[Tony]

You have just done a very good job of defining the problem with the typical house shot. The guy who gets up there and throws strike after strike, week after week, year after year thinks he's good because he can do this on a forgiving house pattern. You're right in that you don't need many smarts or much knowledge to bowl on a THS. Go to a real pattern, however, and you better have a good understanding of bowling balls and ball motion or you are going to find out very quickly that you're really not very good at all.

I understand that you're not thrilled with the THS pattern, certainly there are some issues with house shots, the difference in house shots and how it relates to average or skill, but there are other factors to consider here.

For one a guy who comes in day after day and plays well is his home center, should not really be dropped into the "you're not really good at all" bucket he is good on his home lanes, with the shot he's gotten used to.
Could he go to other centers, and play there often enough to learn the shot there and score well, probably a good chance he could.
Is the player who can travel among different centers , learn the shot and score well a good player, sounds like it.
Lets call that player A

Is player B who scores lower than player A on his home shot, but has played sport patterns and learned how to play them better than A a better player ?
Well yes and no, lets call the home THS HOME and everything else AWAY, of course player A is going to get better and better playing home than he does playing away, it's been proven in studies the home team / players have a higher performance level at home.

In this case it appears you are attributing 100% of the higher performance at home to playing on the THS, so asserting the player who performs at a lower level away isn't really a good player at all.
Lets look at a few baseball stats for players that by your definition are not really good at all because they perform at a lower level away
Home Away
Carl Yastrezmski .306 .264
Ted Williams .361 .328
Frank Robinson .307 .283
Roberto Clemente .329 .306
Babe Ruth .347 .338
There are dozens of these other "players that aren't good at all" like Honus Wagner. Mickey Mantle, Pete Rose, Al Kaline, Stan Musial,
because they performed at a much higher level at home on their THS, somehow I think some people would disagree with that assertion.
I'm not 100% sure but I think almost all of them are in the HOF.

So lets review, if you player against Roberto Clemente when he was playing away and you batted .307, does that make you a better player than he is...
go back to my answer above of yes and no .....
You can simply say this is bowling, and not baseball but you can't ignore the fact that home field is an advantage in nearly all sports, and with that said advantage, how do you determine exactly how much of player A's better performance is because of that, compared to because of the specific oil pattern on the lane.
I'll go out on a limb here and say, you simply can't, home field is partly intangible, so the only way to eliminate that variable is to make the house shots on all lanes exactly them same, probably with differences in lane surface, oiling equipment, oil, temp, humidity, airflow, ans such, that's simply not possible.
You could try and make a standard, but chances are there would be some deviation even if everyone tried to do it.

So when you come right down to it, isn't the perception of who's a great player, and who's "not good at all" really subjective, and totally based upon what you personally, have deemed your definition when trying to decide based upon their performance at home, vs away should be weighed?
Doesn't it remind you a little of a couple of kids playing ball and when the visiting kid loses, he yells I'll kick your but if we play at my house, and then he does, so who's the better player ?

[Tony]

THS isn't the question it is knowledge or athletic ability. Remember the old saying those who can do, those who can't teach. 98% of CERTIFIED bowlers bowl on THS.

You are correct, I have bowled for years, on multiple leagues and have not bowled on any sport / PBA patterns, so I can't really say how I would bowl
on them, and really does it matter.
I can compare 2 guys on my team guy A bowls on THS has been bowling for 30 years, guy B bowls on THS plus all sorts of sport shots, USBC open 2017 he is currently in the top 20,

Guy A has a 205 avg / guy B has a 197 avg / bowling together on THS, who's better ? why ?

Guy B is a good bowler, doesn't really play other sports
Guy A was a HS star in baseball and basketball and was offered a MLB minor league contract, he's got great hand eye coordination and is good at every sport he's played, darts, pool, badminton, it doesn't matter.

Guy B has taken dozens of lessons from a Gold level coach
Guy A never took a lesson

Guy B has all the latest balls
Guy A has a 3 year old Brunwick gold Rhino I gave him, before that he was using a 12 year old total inferno

Guy B is super knowledgeable on oil patterns, ball, and the game in general, always thinking about what he should be doing.
Guy A is always trying to get another buddy of his to buy him a drink and is always talking to the cute waitress.

Athletics wins

[Timmyb]

I have never once in my life walked into a house and asked what pattern they had down. I grab my s**t and throw, and then move. It's never even crossed my mind to find out what the pattern was. I could have been on a sport shot and not known it. I don't care.

Maybe this just comes down to "shut up and bowl".

[RobLV1]

You are ALL deluding yourselves. Join a PBA Experience or Tough Shot league and see how many pins your average drops (20, 30, 40 or more). Going from one house shot to another house shot at another center is not the equivalent of bowling on a sport shot. House shots use oil ratios of 10:1 or higher. Sport shots are 2:1 and PBA shots are a max of 3:1. It's not just a matter of standing on 20, or 22, or 18 and hitting 10. It's a matter of understanding the pattern, the characteristics of the center, and your bowling balls to give yourselves the best chance of scoring. You don't get the advantage of free hook to your right to forgive errant shots. You can't compare different baseball fields to different kinds of oil patterns.

[fordman1]

It does not matter how smart you are it matters who wins. which would you rather be the guy who averages 230 on all the house shots or the guy who averages 200 on sport? Some people have jobs and families to think about.

[JasonNJ]

Agree and disagree, it you throw a hard straight ball and get pin action the oil patterns do not matter. I have seen people that use house balls and throw straight to the pocket and are more consistent then I'll ever be. They do not have to adjust or switch and don't give a dam where the oil is

A straight ball will never have the same consistent carry as a ball with a hook. Straight balls will see a lot more deflection.