How THS has ruined bowling, and why we should all quit and play Bocce ball instead !

[J Anderson]

Bowl with what you are given...Anyone see the pro's shoot on the 55' oil pattern when even Belmo threw a straight ball....Oil patterns do not matter to me you bowl on what you are given, Yes I am now good but used to be and even I know that. All you people have 8 balls find one that works. Even though I am a lower average bowler with 2 balls I can adjust ......and?

To start with I am not bowling with the balls I've been given, let's get that out of the way first thing !

There are a few other things to keep in mind, how many different houses with different lane conditions do you bowl at ?
Many of the guys I know bowl at 4 or more different centers who all layout a different house shot. It would be much harder to perform well at all of them with only two balls.

Not to mention guys on travel or sport shot leagues, I know several guys who are on a travel league, imagine the variation in conditions they encounter.

I also recall the olden days when almost everyone had one ball, no spare ball or anything, when they try to do that today, are they successful, not usually, even the 70 yo guys I bowl with have learned to accept that, and most of them are carrying 2 to 4 balls.

Another question is if a guy wants to lug around 10 balls, who cares, he's not making you pay for them or haul them around. I admit I have more balls than I "NEED" but so what, I'm not taking food off the table to pay for them and I like to try different balls, lines and I bowl at multiple centers, where the shot is very different, some balls just stay in the locker at that center for when I'm there.

I think Lou meant bowl with the lane conditions you're given, and don't gripe about how there's too much or not enough oil, or that they changed the pattern and therefore don't have the right ball with you.

[J Anderson]

It has happened for two reasons. Less and less womens leagues and the men don't want to keep losing teams. They are mostly still a mans league but have a few women bowling. Some really good women can't find anywhere to bowl because they are just too good.
Cost is the same unless it is a local assn. charging more.

One trend that I've noticed is the centers are registering more leagues as mixed, one league I bowl in that has been around over 50 years and was always a mens league. Earlier this year one guy asked if his girlfriend could sub for a teammate going to be laid up with surgery, to his surprise the league was registered as mixed and with a coaches vote we allowed her to bowl since it wasn't in the league rules.
Makes me wonder if there is a lower registration cost or something that encouraged them to register it as mixed....?

I'm not sure about whether there has been a decline in womens leagues but it's definitely true that mens leagues have become mixed in order to keep from losing teams.

Back in the 70s and early 80s when my league was all men following a mixed league, the old timers would always gripe about the earlier league and how the women spent too much time flirting instead of bowling and the men spent too much time hitting on the women. By the early 90s we had voted to let women in with only two dissenting votes.

[Tony]

I think Lou meant bowl with the lane conditions you're given, and don't gripe about how there's too much or not enough oil, or that they changed the pattern and therefore don't have the right ball with you.

You will always have the gripers, whiners, complainers, it's human nature, and just who some people are.

I bowl with one guy when he throws a decent ball and doesn't strike always turns around with his mouth open in disbelief, it's so funny we can't help but laugh.

The one's that get old for me are the guys who kick the return throw things and generally have a little 2 year old style tantrum.

Most of the guys I know quietly bring up a different ball and try to adjust their game to do the best they can.

I don't have a problem with however many balls a guy brings with him unless he puts them in everyone's way and creates a hazard.

[Tony]

It has happened for two reasons. Less and less womens leagues and the men don't want to keep losing teams. They are mostly still a mans league but have a few women bowling. Some really good women can't find anywhere to bowl because they are just too good.
Cost is the same unless it is a local assn. charging more.

Yes, several of the womens leagues that used to have 20 teams, 5 or 10 years ago are gone or down to 6 or 8 teams, I know of several woman that are now in the non sanctioned beer and pizza league, same cost but no sanction and you get a pizza, plate of wings and pitcher of beer.....not that bad of a deal, but they do have to contend with some novice bowlers and such fun things.

On the wed night league 42 lanes used to have 2 mens leagues and a womans league, filled the place. Now 5 years later, the mens leagues have merged, the womans league is gone, we have 22 lanes, and the beer and pizza fun league has the other 20, so the house is still full, and that's what keeps the place in business.

[fordman1]

Back to the original question. Maybe THS saved bowling not ruined it.

[1VegasBowler]

To start with I am not bowling with the balls I've been given, let's get that out of the way first thing !

There are a few other things to keep in mind, how many different houses with different lane conditions do you bowl at ?
Many of the guys I know bowl at 4 or more different centers who all layout a different house shot. It would be much harder to perform well at all of them with only two balls.

Not to mention guys on travel or sport shot leagues, I know several guys who are on a travel league, imagine the variation in conditions they encounter.

I also recall the olden days when almost everyone had one ball, no spare ball or anything, when they try to do that today, are they successful, not usually, even the 70 yo guys I bowl with have learned to accept that, and most of them are carrying 2 to 4 balls.

Another question is if a guy wants to lug around 10 balls, who cares, he's not making you pay for them or haul them around. I admit I have more balls than I "NEED" but so what, I'm not taking food off the table to pay for them and I like to try different balls, lines and I bowl at multiple centers, where the shot is very different, some balls just stay in the locker at that center for when I'm there.

I agree with this in its entirety.

Even though the conditions we encounter each week are supposed to be the same, there are times when they certainly don't play the same each week, and sometimes the transitions can happen much sooner and more frequently on some nights. And even though I do bring my entire arsenal with me each time, it certainly doesn't mean I'll use them all. By the same token there are nights I am sure glad I have them.

Imagine having only your most aggressive equipment with you (Ultimate Nirvana & Vandal Smash), and then realize during practice you can't use them because they are way too much. The opposite certainly applies as well.

[Aslan]

Two things to remember.
Every thing is driven by dollars. The BPAA wants the shot easier so their centers are full.
USBC can't do much without centers to bowl in.

1) That's a "slippery slope". If a center wants to put up bumpers during sanctioned league play...they can't do that. No matter how much money they could make...the USBC MUST protect the integrity of the game. The USBC, mostly due to the sport declining in popularity, hasn't done an adequate job of protecting the integrity of the game...and the result is out of control equipment, easy THS shots, and increasing averages.
2) The USBC absolutely CAN police the BPAA. Bowling centers that are non-sanctioned...have very few "leagues"...if any. They are then forced to rely SOLELY on birthday parties, corporate parties, and casual bowlers. Those centers...almost always...with a few exceptions...close down. Leagues are still the economic life blood of a properous center...it's guaranteed income that the center can always count on...as long as they maintain their certification.

The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.

At risk of making Tony cry...I agree 100% with Rob. If I had a nickel for every 200 average bowler that thinks they are as good as the pro bowlers...I'd be able to finally build my spaceship that I want to build.

As I've suggested in another thread...the simple answer is for the USBC to require the use of either the USBC Red, USBC White, or USBC Blue patterns to be used during sanctioned league play.
1) Those patterns are available and almost every center has an oil machine capable of putting down those patterns.
2) It STANDARDIZES the oil pattern from center to center and region to region.
3) It gives the USBC an easily verifiable pattern to inspect.
4) It gives the USBC the ability to change those patterns as the game evolves.
5) It allows every bowler to know EXACTLY what pattern they are bowling on each night.

As to Vegas1's comments about the USBC and suggestions....I WILL give the USBC credit that during the Motiv Fiasco...of the 4 letters I wrote (Motiv, Brunswick, PBA, USBC)...the USBC was the ONLY one to respond to my letter. Granted, I'm a USBC member...and granted the response was pretty much just a carefully worded recap of what they had posted online...but STILL....I was impressed that they at least took the time to respond to their member's concerns. Brunswick not responding was disappointing...as a Brunswick customer...but I understand their response would have been more of a "legal dilemma". The PBA not responding forced me to drop my XTraFrame subscription for 2016 and I still am boycotting all PBA National events...only watching PBA50 and PWBA events from now on. And I'll never buy a Motiv product, so they lost a potential customer. But...the point is that the USBC actually DOES listen to their members and usually will respond...so, props for that.

[2handedsniper]

yes usbc is very good they responded to my emails

[Tony]

1)

At risk of making Tony cry...I agree 100% with Rob. If I had a nickel for every 200 average bowler that thinks they are as good as the pro bowlers...I'd be able to finally build my spaceship that I want to build.

I think we have finally been able to pin point the problem, you live in the land of delusional bowlers.
If I had a nickel for every 200 avg bowler locally I know who thinks they are as good as the pro's you know what I would have...... 0.00

You can go ahead and raise that up as high as you want, even the guys I know who avg in the 230's don't think that, it appears the bowlers you know are not very bright, have been out in the sun too long, or are on drugs.....This revelation actually explains a great deal about your posts.

Seriously the people in the Midwest do not think if they shoot par they can be on the tour or if they sink 10 free throws they can play in the NBA.....

[fordman1]

I stated in an earlier post that no bowlers think they are as good as touring pros. There may be some who could be if they decided to put in the work. Most have jobs that provide good income and health insurance. Good example is Tom Smallwood. He lost his good GM job so gave the PBA a chance.
We have 230+ bowlers who refuse to even bowl in the local assn. tournament. With all our members we never get 100 bowlers but have probably 2000 averaging over 220.
They know it is a waste of money.

They bowl in THS leagues and keep the leagues alive.