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Thread: How THS has ruined bowling, and why we should all quit and play Bocce ball instead !

  1. #51
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed Wednesday...was I was missing my mark by about 4 boards to the right (give or take).

    I had a cold (still do)....my game wasn't "on" by any means.

    But, what struck me as somewhat disappointing was that I seemed to be able to strike anyway.

    From now on, I'm going to try and pay even more attention to the +/- in terms of target versus where I actually am hitting. I guess, with my bowling going rather well lately...I kind've just assumed I must have been hitting my target consistently. Once I noticed some of my rather significant misses were still striking...I started paying closer attention.

    So...just curious...next time you bowl league night...maybe keep track of "target vs hit" and maybe come here and share it.

    Something like;
    1. +2 (L), X
    2. +3 (R), 9 /
    3. +1 (R), X
    4. 0, 9 -
    5. +6 (R), X
    6. +1, (L), X

    (L) = Left
    (R) = Right

    If we can miss 4-6 boards from our targets...and still strike...maybe the THS problem is even worse than I actually thought it was...
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  2. #52
    Bowling God MICHAEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    I agree completely. I would also like to see less taper (Christmas Tree) that helps to guide the ball to the pocket. We need to start to reign in the factors in the THS that take away any necessity for accuracy. Unfortunately, and I know that I will be accused for getting on my soapbox, as long as the USBC and the BPAA are sharing a coffee machine, this will not happen. The proprietors are too afraid of losing customers, and the USBC really doesn't have the money to monitor and enforce tougher lane conditions. The real losers, as I have said before, are the Professional Bowlers, as recreational bowlers just don't know how good they really are.
    Rob, with all due respect, I do have many, MANY bowlers come up to me that have bowled for many years, some as long 40 to 60 years, and say they have never had a 300 game. Many don't have high averages also. Rob, I know you are VERY knowdledgable about lane conditions, if they are so easy, and with your knowledge, what is your average? How many800, and 300 have you had. I just saying many bowlers of average to good skills have never had a 300, or 800! I would expect with you amazing knowledge, and I say that with a huge amount of respect for you having met you, ,,,,,,,,, (If lane conditions are so easy, why don't bowlers like yourself have 230 averages, with Godzilla numbers of 300s, and 800s? I know many senior bowlers that have good averages, and never had a 300/800! I keep hearing how easy it is to roll a 300 game, but I think many people I bowl around at 3 different houses would disagree...

    Might be having a REMATCH with you this Summer Rob! ICEMAN against the younger Coach! Are you up to it bud!! What format would you like! Want to play each other at more then one house?? ICEMAN is not the same person you might remember. That ONE lesson you game me has turned me into something amazing on a given day! 834!! 24 strikes in a role!!

    I know the temperature is HOT in Vegas, but a Rematch between The Coach, and Iceman just might explode the temperature gauge!!

    ICEMAN needs to bring the title back to his home town of Kansas City Missouri where it belongs!

    Do you accept this one on one challenge this coming July?
    Don't walk on Thin Ice!

  3. #53
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    All I can do is smile when anyone says the shot is just too easy. That was what they used to say when membership was dropping. They quit because it was too easy. It that was true why haven't they came back to bowl on the sports patterns. Most places you couldn't fill the house up if sport bowling leagues were a dollar a game.

  4. #54
    Bowling God MICHAEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    All I can do is smile when anyone says the shot is just too easy. That was what they used to say when membership was dropping. They quit because it was too easy. It that was true why haven't they came back to bowl on the sports patterns. Most places you couldn't fill the house up if sport bowling leagues were a dollar a game.
    I know some Missouri hall of fame bowlers here in Missouri! They have their good days, and they have their bad days! Its not easy, if it were you would have a 200 average Aslan! You have great form, you have been coached by some of the best bowlers in the world, you very intelligent, you know bowling, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,, So if its so easy why are you still where your at in regards to average? I know mine is up this year, over 200 but nothing like a solid 225 or anything like that. BUT,,,, BUT,,,, on a give day I can do remarkable scores, like the 832 and double 300's! I just did another one the last Saturday on the Big 22!

    It seems to me what makes bowling difficult is many factors,,,,,,,,,,, The particular lanes you on,,,,,,, The Temperature and humidity,,,,, how fresh the oil is, and what kind of oil, how many bowlers are on the lanes,,,, 5 person teams, 10 bowlers, vs 2 person teams. What type of bowlers you up against that day,,, high rev types, or lower types, like most senior citizens. So many factors in my opinion make every time out bowling an adventure, with uncertainty! No such animal as Easy Lanes, in my opinion! Way too many cercimstanceses make every outing an exciting enterprise!

    I love bowling with all its various challenges, and anyone that says its too easy, (and is not a professional), then I would say how so??? I would agree that its too easy if you have a 230 average or higher, and a host of 300's, and 800s!

    There is plenty of challenge out there for all us none professionals,,,, so says ICEMAN"S
    Last edited by MICHAEL; 06-12-2017 at 05:58 PM.
    Don't walk on Thin Ice!

  5. #55

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    While there is a certain amount of truth in all the proceeding comments, what really should we attribute the fall off in bowling popularity..... yes the THS has had an influence on the game, as have advancements in ball technology, but I don't actually place those items very high on the list.
    Sure maybe some people have quit and blamed THS, I personally don't know anyone who claimed that and I have been bowling in a league for over 30 years (yikes)

    It seems to me that a drop in manufacturing employment, income, and increased competition for the entertainment dollar have been the real culprits in the drop-off.
    Around the midwest we used to have scores of industrial leagues with company sponsored teams, they are all but gone.

    Figuring that bowling cost on the average (near me) 15.00 a week over 33 weeks, the cost is fairly substantial and can be replaced by on-line gaming for a cost near nothing.

    In some ways bocce ball has taken up some of the slack, for a social game playing and having a drink, once you belong to the club and pay the 50 a year membership the leagues are usually free and the drinks at the club are half the cost of what the bowling center charges.

    I actually have run across several former bowlers who have taken up bocce ...... not that that's common on a national basis .

    I still know many of the bowlers in leagues I'm in are bowling primarily for a social outing and have no aspirations of becoming a pro, for them the THS has had minimal impact, I don't see them putting up 230 averages or shooting 300's and 800's .....bowling is plenty hard enough to prevent that.......

  6. #56
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    Tony if you don't mind I will break it down even more. It is Automation, Computerization job killers. Factories have been automated. Where there were formerly 5,000 workers now there are 500. Now in warehouses robots find the product and bring it to the shipping dock. Teller machines, auto checkout lanes in stores. Credit cards. and the one I get into trouble for the most "lazy kids" They don't want to do any sport or activity unless they are driven there.

    I am really old Tony and I have never met a person in my life who played bocce ball. Don't know any place you can play it. Nothing wrong with it but I just don't know of any places.

  7. #57
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MICHAEL View Post
    Its not easy, if it were you would have a 200 average Aslan! You have great form, you have been coached by some of the best bowlers in the world, you very intelligent, you know bowling, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,, So if its so easy why are you still where your at in regards to average?
    Your honor...let me enter into evidence the above statement.
    25 years ago...nobody would have said, "if you were good, you'd have a 200 average." A 200 average was reserved for players that made a living bowling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MICHAEL View Post
    I know mine is up this year, over 200 but nothing like a solid 225 or anything like that. BUT,,,, BUT,,,, on a give day I can do remarkable scores, like the 832 and double 300's! I just did another one the last Saturday on the Big 22!
    Your honor, let me enter into evidence, exhibit 2.

    Iceman started bowling about 5 years ago...has 4 perfect games and an 800 series to his credit. In the 60s and 70s...that would have been absolutely unheard of...again; unless you're a top level pro.

    Quote Originally Posted by MICHAEL View Post
    ...and anyone that says its too easy, (and is not a professional), then I would say how so??? I would agree that its too easy if you have a 230 average or higher, and a host of 300's, and 800s!
    Talk to some bowling proprietors. You'll hear them talk about making the conditions as easy as possible to encourage bowlers to bowl (casually and in leagues). Look at the statistics...the loss of interest in the sport...the inflated averages...the exponential increase in honor scores.

    Among sanctioned bowlers:
    In the 1950s; the odds of rolling a perfect game were 650,000 to 1.

    In 2010, the odds were 3000 to 1.

    Just because statistics 'can' lie...doesn't mean they always do.
    Last edited by Aslan; 06-13-2017 at 07:35 PM.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  8. #58
    Bowling God MICHAEL's Avatar
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    If its so easy, ( I say again) you with all your coaching practice and knowledge, where are your easy lane 300??? The senior league I bowled the 834, and 2 300s in a role, has never
    had ONE other 300 in the many years its been operating THAT league. I have people come up to me that are very good bowlers saying they have NEVER had a 300, but been close several times in their many years of bowling. When was Rob's last 300 game, and how many has he had in the last 2 years???

    I rest my case, and hand over my case to the judge to sentence!!

    Remember that at the lanes where I rolled the 24 strikes, has Never had that feat done in the over 40 years its been in operation according to the management. That goes back to the 60s, and its a 48 lane bowling alley with a lot of history.

    Is Iceman special,,,, Judge,,, I will leave that to the jury to decide... I have like many had my good days, and my great days, Different lanes, different days, different bowling challangers, tempature, etc, all have on barring on good days, average days, and great days.

    Did I say I had another 300 game on a bet just the other day, for 20 bucks! LOL That's 3 in just 3 months. They were not easy,,, ball changes, moving constantly to chase the oil... etc...

    Its not easy,,,, to say that is an insult to many bowlers out there struggling to keep a 170-190 average! I get sick and tired of people saying how easy it is then I ask them what their average is, and have to laugh,,,, or how many easy 300's, or 800s they have. My average is at this
    time around 200, to 210 depending on which league... I have BAD days, on that oil that's suppose to be so easy, no matter how I try to adjust, that's what kills a strong 220-230 average. But Iam working on it. I get a huge rush when the magic works, and that's what keeps me coming back for the GOOD the Bad, and the Ugly!

    Is it easier then a sports pattern,,, SURE,,,, but is the house pattern REALLY THAT EASY ASLAN! Is it no challenge 4 you?

    Judge, I rest my case!
    Last edited by MICHAEL; 06-14-2017 at 02:08 AM.
    Don't walk on Thin Ice!

  9. #59

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    As I have said on many occasions, just because I'm considered a pretty good coach, does not mean that I'm a good bowler. About the time that bowling balls got stupid strong and lane conditions got stupid easy, the bones in my spine started to degenerate, making it impossible for me to take advantage of modern bumper bowling. That being said, virtually every week in each of the leagues in which I bowl, there is at least one three hundred game, and often multiple three hundreds. 800's are more rare, only happening once or twice a month. These scores are being shot by bowlers who couldn't shoot 200 on a sport pattern if their lives depended on it! Michael, if you are really as good as you seem to think you are, the next time there is a PBA Regional Event near you, sign up to bowl in it. If you can cash there, we'll all be impressed!

  10. #60
    Bowling God MICHAEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    As I have said on many occasions, just because I'm considered a pretty good coach, does not mean that I'm a good bowler. About the time that bowling balls got stupid strong and lane conditions got stupid easy, the bones in my spine started to degenerate, making it impossible for me to take advantage of modern bumper bowling. That being said, virtually every week in each of the leagues in which I bowl, there is at least one three hundred game, and often multiple three hundreds. 800's are more rare, only happening once or twice a month. These scores are being shot by bowlers who couldn't shoot 200 on a sport pattern if their lives depended on it! Michael, if you are really as good as you seem to think you are, the next time there is a PBA Regional Event near you, sign up to bowl in it. If you can cash there, we'll all be impressed!
    Modern bumper bowling.. LOL.... wow Rob, is it really ,,,REALLY that easy! You must have a lot of retired pro bowlers if what YOU say is TRUE about your seniors league. Either that or they do lay down a dressed up shot for senior citizens in Vegas! If that's the case, I am glad what happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas!

    Don't get me going on your health conditions compared to MINE! I have many,,, MANY,,, issues including some bad accidents I had while putting up Steel building like the many that are located in Vegas. I will say that doctors wanted me on dozens of medications, but I have found a way to take care of each and every one of them using all natural ways, and substances. The senior leagues here in Kansas City has some damn good bowlers, but no 300, or 800s except rarely by a bwoler named Pat Henderson! Even Pat, might go a whole season now days not throwing a 300 , or 800,,,,,,,,easy,,,, Bumper Bowling,,,,, Not happening here, maybe the ABA should check out those lanes you bowl that senior league on. I rarely hear of 300s around Kansas City on the leagues I bowl. And many of those leages are in big houses, one with 48 lanes.

    I am not saying ICEMAN is some Great God of a Bowler,,,,,,,,BUT,,,,, on a given day, on a given set of lanes,,, when I am feeling the POWER I can do remarkable things, like the double 300s I did a month ago. Can I bowl a really average game,,,, SURE!

    Are we going to RUMBLE in the Desert??? Do you have what its takes to melt Iceman??? Or is the fear of meeting me on the hollowed lanes of Vegas too much for you!

    I personally would like to take on that challenge!

    I know your much younger then ICEMAN, but then I am a Super Hero, so that evens it out in my book!!!!

    I know what a sports pattern is all about and have bowled several of them as I mentioned above a few years back. House Vs Sports, is like playing different golf courses. Even a house oil pattern plays differently on each and every lane. Its not like the perfect shot to a 300, or 800... YOU KNOW THAT Rob. It is still a challenge regardless.....I get sick and tired of some people belittling the shot that I have done well at.

    If there was a sports pattern league here in Kansas City Missouri, I would be the FIRST TO JOIN it! I am sure with practice I could master any of them also. Its just a matter of knowledge, and practice!

    Anything can be accomplished, and made easy with the above!

    I know Rob,,, your a pretty good coach! Aslan is proof of that,,,(((lol)))),,,, I know you can lead a horse to water, but..........
    Your a good bowler also, like many I know here in the Kansas city area, no better then many I know, but better then a lot.

    Lets do this RUMBLE IN THE DESERT.... are you game? what format sounds interesting. I would love to try out that EASY OIL YOU KEEP TALKING about
    that has several 300s, every league night. LOL

    NOTHING LIKE THAT HERE BUD!
    Don't walk on Thin Ice!

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