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Thread: Well, there are a couple misconceptions about what Liz did

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    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Default Well, there are a couple misconceptions about what Liz did

    Well, there are a couple misconceptions about what Liz did:

    1) Liz wasn't playing inside the entire tournament.
    2) Liz moved inside because she knew that the outside line had transitioned. Diana Z stubbornly refused to move inside.

    I think the debate about "inside versus track versus outside (1st arrow, up and in) is more a debate regarding where to play on fresh conditions.

    I usually start somewhere around the track...8-12 at the arrows laying the ball down about 13-16 at the foul line. That's a very common place to play the lanes...especially given that most lanes outside of Vegas tend to be on the drier side which makes the 1st arrow shot almost impossible with modern equipment (unless you're on sport conditions).

    That being said, usually by the end of a 3-game set...I'm targeting 11-15 at the arrows with a laydown of 14-21 at the foul line. By the time the 3-game set is over, I've probably moved my target in a few boards and my feet in 3-6 boards.

    So, in that regard, I play the inside line just like Liz does...when the lanes dictate that I have to. But, like Liz and most other bowlers...including the vast majority of house bowlers, most of the PWBA, and almost all of the PBA50...I start out somewhere around the track on fresh conditions.

    As my rev rate and release have improved, I've been able to open up the lanes a little more. I used to start out targeting around 6-7 and laying the ball down around 5-7...essentially playing a straight shot outside the track and letting the ball curve into the pocket. With a suitcase release where I'm releasing the ball with my hand on top of the ball versus behind/inside/beneath it...I needed all the help I could get for that ball to get back to the pocket. By the end of the night...I was bowling on the transition...10-12 at the arrows, laying the ball down at about 10-13...still throwing it straight to the target and relying on backend motion. For illustration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRnLBy9UCp8

    I agree with Fordman and I've had coaches say the same thing, concerning accuracy; you have to be quite a bit more accurate as you move inside. If I miss right, as much as 6-8 boards, playing the track...the ball will likely come back to the pocket and leave me a 10-pin. If I miss left 1-2 boards I will likely still strike. When I move inside...a > 2-board miss left or right and I leave a headpin combo (miss right) or go through the nose and leave a split (left side miss).
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    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Well, there are a couple misconceptions about what Liz did:

    I agree with Fordman and I've had coaches say the same thing, concerning accuracy; you have to be quite a bit more accurate as you move inside. If I miss right, as much as 6-8 boards, playing the track...the ball will likely come back to the pocket and leave me a 10-pin. If I miss left 1-2 boards I will likely still strike. When I move inside...a > 2-board miss left or right and I leave a headpin combo (miss right) or go through the nose and leave a split (left side miss).
    6-8 boards? Really? Still a pocket shot. If I'm aiming at 10 and hit 4 even the balls going to do one of three things depending on the house. Go into the gutter most likely, hook to the 7 pin or go Brooklyn none of which are close to the pocket. I don't have anywhere on any lane that I've got that much miss room and still come on the right side of the head pin much less the pocket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amyers View Post
    6-8 boards? Really? Still a pocket shot.
    It happens here, I've had balls go to the one board come back to the pocket and strike.

    But most of the time with those steep angles it leaves a 10-pin.

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798

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    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    It happens here, I've had balls go to the one board come back to the pocket and strike.

    But most of the time with those steep angles it leaves a 10-pin.
    I'm not saying it can't happen but as a usual occurrence enough to influence where you play? If your playing ten and the ball hits at 4 unless your playing extremely straight that's a gutter ball. People must be doing some serious walking right on the approach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    It happens here, I've had balls go to the one board come back to the pocket and strike.

    But most of the time with those steep angles it leaves a 10-pin.
    What Bowl1820 said.

    The times where that has happened...I usually missed but had a good release with alot of hand in the ball. Had I hit my mark...I'd have probably left a 4-9. But, as Bowl1820 described...a miss like that almost never strikes....usually you leave a 10-pin or if you're not as lucky...something like a 5-7 split. Having the ball go all the way out and back uses up alot of it's energy...so when it makes it back to the pocket...it limps in like a wounded duck.
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    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amyers View Post
    I'm not saying it can't happen but as a usual occurrence enough to influence where you play? If your playing ten and the ball hits at 4 unless your playing extremely straight that's a gutter ball. People must be doing some serious walking right on the approach.
    It depends on your angles.

    If I'm laying down 15-16 at the foul line and targeting 11...but I hit 8 instead (3-board miss)...it's not gonna go in the gutter...but it's gonna be about 3-4 at the tracers rather than 9 at the tracers. So, it's a 3-board miss at the target and a 5-board miss at the breakpoint.

    In contrast, if I'm playing a sharper angle...laying down about 20....targeting 11...then a 2-3 board miss right 'might' stay out of the gutter...but a 4-6 board miss will almost certainly go in the gutter.

    Bowl1820 can explain better because he has that fancy thing where you can draw lines on the lane to illustrate.

    It's one of the reasons that 1st arrow is my "B-Game". I love the out and in shot...but I hate losing my miss room on the right. Throwing straight up the 4-board is nerve-racking...because even a 2-board miss could end up in the channel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amyers View Post
    I'm not saying it can't happen but as a usual occurrence enough to influence where you play? If your playing ten and the ball hits at 4 unless your playing extremely straight that's a gutter ball. People must be doing some serious walking right on the approach.
    No not a usual occurrence, those are accidental shots. You hit your leg with the ball, etc. and throw the ball wide.

    But once in a blue moon when struggling, I've made a "accidental shot" that had a good look and struck. An I've adjusted to try make a similar shot if it wasn't some ludicrous change or area of the lane. Like if a ball struck from the one board, I wouldn't try play the one board.

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798

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    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    No not a usual occurrence, those are accidental shots. You hit your leg with the ball, etc. and throw the ball wide.

    But once in a blue moon when struggling, I've made a "accidental shot" that had a good look and struck. An I've adjusted to try make a similar shot if it wasn't some ludicrous change or area of the lane. Like if a ball struck from the one board, I wouldn't try play the one board.
    It also depends on how much hand you had in the shot.

    I've missed well right and struck...and thought, "Hmmm....maybe I should be playing that line." But if that shot was with a ton of hand...and you try the same angle with not as much hand = big problems.

    So, as a "not-so-good" bowler...I have to always ask myself, "Can I repeat the shot and move? Or, was that a fluke and I should stay where I'm at?"

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    I agree totally with all of you. That's is always the best policy. If it isn't you normal A game when you move deeper inside it is harder to hit your mark. Your body has to get into a position that you are not normally in. You miss a little right and the ball will still recover, a little more and you get a washout. Miss in and you get a split. All depends on how much oil is in the middle. I find it easier to move in than going down the out side of 5. Just can't seem to keep my arm in line. That big wide gray board next to one might be causing a brain fart.

  10. #10

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    Go back and look at my original post. Somehow, when Aslan posted nonsense about playing inside vs. outside on a fresh condition and Liz not playing inside for the whole tournament, the entire thread went to h*ll in a hand basket. The point was, and still is, that you don't have to have a lot of hand to play an inside line. Where this went South was when everyone started chiming in about why they can't play in, or play out, or play wherever. The fact of the matter is, if you move to a different part of the lane and start missing your mark on a consistent basis, there is only one reason: you haven't practiced it to the point where you have gotten comfortable with it. If you can't play the third arrow, take a plastic, urethane, or non-aggressive resin ball and throw 10, 20, or 30 games playing the third arrow until you feel like it is your best friend. Do the same with the fourth arrow, etc. Practice is not about shooting scores. With a non-aggressive ball, you should be able to hit the pocket from any part of the lane, once you learn to just throw your shot and hit your mark. The only other thing that you have to do is to make sure that you do not start drifting right with your feet as you move your target deeper inside.

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