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Thread: Re prior discussion on easy leagues with Aslan.

  1. #1

    Default Re prior discussion on easy leagues with Aslan.

    Some time back there were several discussions about a Wed league I'm in that has several high level bowlers, throwing frequent 300 games and high series.

    The general consensus by some was it was an excessively easy shot and if we bowled on different lanes we would find much different results.

    As luck would have it, I joined a summer league at a different center (center 2) and had two guys I regularly have bowled with at my original center (1)
    along with.
    There were also several guys I bowl with on the center 1 leagues so I know how they shoot.

    As a result it was interesting to see how things went.

    This was a 13 week league with 14 three person teams and was 100% of 220.

    The number of 300 games for the season 0
    The number of 800 series for the season 0
    The number of 700 series for the season somewhere in the 20's
    High series 729
    High game 299

    These were down significantly from center 1

    Our averages / myself / 2 teammates/ 2 other buddies who bowl at both centers

    Center 1 Center 2

    181 193
    183 196
    197 209
    212 209
    206 210

    Averages were up for 4 of the 5 bowlers but overall scoring was way down from center 1....

    So what would you say that would indicate ?

    The high season series at center 2 would be unlikely to even be the high weekly series at center 1

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    So what would you say that would indicate ?
    That if you go to a different house the shot will be different.

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 4 7/8” over 1/4” up.Speed ave. about 15.5 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
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    "Adjust too soon and maybe ruin one frame, adjust too late and ruin a game."

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    High Roller got_a_300's Avatar
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    +1 for bowl1820's answer......and we don't even have to change centers
    as our shot is different week to week. I can play up the 5th or 6th board
    one week and then come in the next week and I'll have to play the 4th or
    5th arrow or somewhere in between.
    I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling Forums
    Right handed, ex-cranker now a power tweener approx. 350 - 400 RPM's PAP 4 1/2" over 1" up high league sanctioned game 300 high league sanctioned series 788
    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Some time back there were several discussions about a Wed league I'm in that has several high level bowlers, throwing frequent 300 games and high series.

    The general consensus by some was it was an excessively easy shot and if we bowled on different lanes we would find much different results.

    As luck would have it, I joined a summer league at a different center (center 2) and had two guys I regularly have bowled with at my original center (1)
    along with.
    There were also several guys I bowl with on the center 1 leagues so I know how they shoot.

    As a result it was interesting to see how things went.

    This was a 13 week league with 14 three person teams and was 100% of 220.

    The number of 300 games for the season 0
    The number of 800 series for the season 0
    The number of 700 series for the season somewhere in the 20's
    High series 729
    High game 299

    These were down significantly from center 1

    Our averages / myself / 2 teammates/ 2 other buddies who bowl at both centers


    Center 01 Center 02
    181 193
    183 196
    197 209
    212 209
    206 210

    Averages were up for 4 of the 5 bowlers but overall scoring was way down from center 1....

    So what would you say that would indicate ?
    It was said that center 1 had a excessively easy shot why? Because it had a lot of honor scores 300's & 800's shot by just a few of the same people all the time.

    But why are the honor scores of just a few players the only determining factor for whether a house is easy or not? What about the majority of bowlers who didn't shoot those honor scores?


    Taking a look at the info here, what do we see?

    Center 2 while having no 300 or 800 scores, has the players averaging about 8-10 pins higher than they do at center 1. You can make a case saying that center 2 is the easier house, because the players are shooting more high scores there which in turn gives them higher averages.

    The flaw here is trying to say that a house/league is easy just because there's lots of honor scores shot, Because If those honor scores are mostly shot by the same small group of players it doesn't give you the whole picture. Just that center 1 appears to be easy for a certain small group of players.
    Last edited by bowl1820; 08-12-2017 at 07:08 PM.

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 4 7/8” over 1/4” up.Speed ave. about 15.5 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
    Click here to see my grip
    "Adjust too soon and maybe ruin one frame, adjust too late and ruin a game."

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowl1820 View Post
    It was said that center 1 had a excessively easy shot why? Because it had a lot of honor scores 300's & 800's shot by just a few of the same people all the time.

    But why are the honor scores of just a few players the only determining factor for whether a house is easy or not? What about the majority of bowlers who didn't shoot those honor scores?


    Taking a look at the info here, what do we see?

    Center 2 while having no 300 or 800 scores, has the players averaging about 8-10 pins higher than they do at center 1. You can make a case saying that center 2 is the easier house, because the players are shooting more high scores there which in turn gives them higher averages.

    The flaw here is trying to say that a house/league is easy just because there's lots of honor scores shot, Because If those honor scores are mostly shot by the same small group of players it doesn't give you the whole picture. Just that center 1 appears to be easy for a certain small group of players.
    Right on target, center 2 is known to be a higher scoring center, most bowlers are averaging around 10 pins higher than center 1.

    There just weren't any of the "superstar" bowlers in this summer league,

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    There are probably bowlers who do just the opposite as Tony. One house is great for Crankers the other is terrible for them. Just the opposite for tweeners or straight players. I could be what fits your game.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    There are probably bowlers who do just the opposite as Tony. One house is great for Crankers the other is terrible for them. Just the opposite for tweeners or straight players. I could be what fits your game.
    There are some bowlers that score better at center 1, typically they are some of the crankers, but center 2 is far from terrible, there is plenty of oil for them to use there too, so for most of them the fall off isn't that large..... the figure of 10 pins better comes from the overall averages by all certified league bowlers according to the general manager, so of course it does vary by individual bowler.
    With multiple local centers all owned by the same people they seem to have tried to set each one up for a slightly different condition and as a result most local bowlers have a center or two that they prefer better, for varied reasons.....

  8. #8
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    My thought would be that one house caters more to a high risk, high reward style which would allow for a higher potential of honor scores while overall lowering the average (since you can easily find yourself leaving a ton of splits and other messes while also stringing a ton of strikes). The other house probably favors a style that is easy to keep the shot in front of you, consistency goes up and as long as you can convert spares you will score, but you don't post crazy numbers.
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  9. #9

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    Typically, bowlers tend to assign way too much to the oil pattern put down at a particular center. There are so many physical factors that also influence the pace of scoring: the age of the facility, how much time has elapsed since lanes were resurfaced, what kind of lanes are installed, the age and type of the oil machine, what type of oil is being used, how often is the oil machine maintained, etc. With very, very few exceptions, bowling proprietors put out a condition where league bowlers can score as high as possible to keep them coming back. It is one of the other factors that may favor one group or style over another.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Typically, bowlers tend to assign way too much to the oil pattern put down at a particular center. There are so many physical factors that also influence the pace of scoring: the age of the facility, how much time has elapsed since lanes were resurfaced, what kind of lanes are installed, the age and type of the oil machine, what type of oil is being used, how often is the oil machine maintained, etc. With very, very few exceptions, bowling proprietors put out a condition where league bowlers can score as high as possible to keep them coming back. It is one of the other factors that may favor one group or style over another.
    Yes those are all factors and we could also add the pins themselves as a variable. I'm sure most proprietors do indeed try to keep scoring up, in the case of center 1 where I bowl with the owner, GM, and the lane man that services and sets up the oiler I have witnessed many conversations about balance between not making it too easy but not so hard that tons of bowlers are complaining about not being able to score. The GM likes to make little changes to the machine to make sure it's not too predictable and forces players to make a little adjustment.

    The better players seem to have little trouble making the adjustment, while the rest of the players have slightly more trouble, I think this is also one of the contributing factors that lead toward more honor scores, and a lower overall player average for the center compared to center 2 where they generally do try and keep scoring high to promote more play.

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