My first video

[bowl1820]

Yeah that's what I was talking about in another post the other day under "thumb savers" I'm not getting out clean as I'd like. I'm hoping that the new ball will help, I'm gonna have my PSO tweak the pitch so hopefully I can get out faster. This is definitely a struggling point for me and very frustrating. If the new ball don't help then I have to do some drills and work hard on it.

I don't believe that was the cause (at least in this instance), You said in this post "I did have to put a little more velocity on it that night because the lanes were bone dry,".

A lot of players when they try to increase speed by muscling, tend to "hitup" on the ball. Which is counter productive because it makes the ball hook just that much more.

That said, I'm not sure I was bending it properly in the other videos the night before. Can you elaborate on "Soften the knee"? If it's not a flexibility issue hopefully I can fix it.

Yes it's a bit of a flexibility issue, your wanting good knee continuation. (Knee continuation is the amount the slide knee continues forward after the slide foot has stopped). That's a problem I've always had I'm stiff legged a lot.


Doug Kent knee continuation

[Phonetek]

I don't believe that was the cause (at least in this instance), You said in this post "I did have to put a little more velocity on it that night because the lanes were bone dry,".

A lot of players when they try to increase speed by muscling, tend to "hitup" on the ball. Which is counter productive because it makes the ball hook just that much more.



Yes it's a bit of a flexibility issue, your wanting good knee continuation. (Knee continuation is the amount the slide knee continues forward after the slide foot has stopped). That's a problem I've always had I'm stiff legged a lot.

Hitting up is a bad habit from my stroker days, back then it was all about lift the more the better. Now with the new balls today it's as you say counter productive and I agree. It's gonna be a heck of a thing to get out of doing that's for sure. Once I get that Rip'd I can't be doing it if I want to have that ball to be worth using. Being lighter may help too but I doubt it, it may make it worse.

This gonna be equally difficult. I'm gonna have to figure out how to become a more flexible. My knee definitely doesn't continue, your right. I also have very little slide at all. I may be skinny but I am out of shape. I dislocated my left knee a few years and it hasn't ever been the same. Perhaps there are some exercises I can do. Maybe the one step drill? This is why I uploaded the video so I can get feedback, I don't have to like it but it's appreciated. I'm gonna have to find a way painful or not to get to the top of my game whatever it takes.

[djp1080]

Phoneman, You mentioned about getting out of the ball more cleanly. Don't know what your thumb pitch is, but you might want to consider a more forward pitch to allow your thumb to relax in the ball and still giving you the feel that the ball is staying on your hand. Reverse pitch was a killer for me. It made me drop the ball early and it also caused me to squeeze the ball with a death grip which came back with me after I'd left this game for a long time. I've tried lots of different things including that tape stuff I sent you that helps me get out of the ball with a much more relaxed hand. My thumb nail usually is hitting the back of the thumb hole on each shot.
Good luck with the new ball...

[Phonetek]

Phoneman, You mentioned about getting out of the ball more cleanly. Don't know what your thumb pitch is, but you might want to consider a more forward pitch to allow your thumb to relax in the ball and still giving you the feel that the ball is staying on your hand. Reverse pitch was a killer for me. It made me drop the ball early and it also caused me to squeeze the ball with a death grip which came back with me after I'd left this game for a long time. I've tried lots of different things including that tape stuff I sent you that helps me get out of the ball with a much more relaxed hand. My thumb nail usually is hitting the back of the thumb hole on each shot.
Good luck with the new ball...

Yeah that's the plan, getting a pitch adjustment. I think my problem is deeper than just pitch though, as Bowl said that I'm hitting up on the ball. That may be more the issue than pitch. Nonetheless I'll have it adjusted.

[boatman37]

I know I have that same knee issue. Don't need a video to tell me that...lol. Something I will have to work on too but my knees have been sore since my comeback. so might have to work on it over summer after they rest and get better.

[michiganbowlingcoach]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr...tml?sort=3&o=0

When looking at the pics look at how much your head moves . Once the downswing starts your head should stay still so you can focus on your intended target. The 2nd pic I circle your hand because your on the side and on top of the ball. In the 4th pic shows where the ball lands . We are suppose to roll the ball not throw the ball . Maybe when the heads are dry and you cant move anymore left, then add loft. You will create more revs by using a modern release as shown below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3XMOkX5l2Y


Side view- Don't like the hand position in your set up. You have a hinged swing so that's good but the setup is so high your late even with a hinged swing. I would like you to lower the setup so it will match your fast feet. This is me personally but I hate the tap yourself on the back follow-through.The pic below is a better way .

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr...tml?sort=3&o=0

1. A Follow-Through consists of two directions: vertical and horizontal.
2. A Follow-Through to the back/shoulder is more upward than outward.
3. A Follow-Through like the one above is more outward – a desired follow-through for our program.
4. An outward Follow-Through will lead to increased ball speed.
5. An outward Follow-Through will lead to a wrist position that is more collapsed at the bottom of the swing leading to more ball reaction. An upward follow-through keeps the
wrist cupped at the bottom of the swing too much.
Hint – When teaching this, have your bowlers initially do a motion following-through toward their
back three times. Ask them is this more upward or outward. Now, follow-through long and low
three times…. Is this more upward or outward? You can relate this to throwing a ball. Is it faster
to throw directly or lob the ball to them

[Phonetek]

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr...tml?sort=3&o=0

When looking at the pics look at how much your head moves . Once the downswing starts your head should stay still so you can focus on your intended target. The 2nd pic I circle your hand because your on the side and on top of the ball. In the 4th pic shows where the ball lands . We are suppose to roll the ball not throw the ball . Maybe when the heads are dry and you cant move anymore left, then add loft. You will create more revs by using a modern release as shown below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3XMOkX5l2Y


Side view- Don't like the hand position in your set up. You have a hinged swing so that's good but the setup is so high your late even with a hinged swing. I would like you to lower the setup so it will match your fast feet. This is me personally but I hate the tap yourself on the back follow-through.The pic below is a better way .

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/spr...g.html?filters[user]=97708019&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

1. A Follow-Through consists of two directions: vertical and horizontal.
2. A Follow-Through to the back/shoulder is more upward than outward.
3. A Follow-Through like the one above is more outward – a desired follow-through for our program.
4. An outward Follow-Through will lead to increased ball speed.
5. An outward Follow-Through will lead to a wrist position that is more collapsed at the bottom of the swing leading to more ball reaction. An upward follow-through keeps the
wrist cupped at the bottom of the swing too much.
Hint – When teaching this, have your bowlers initially do a motion following-through toward their
back three times. Ask them is this more upward or outward. Now, follow-through long and low
three times…. Is this more upward or outward? You can relate this to throwing a ball. Is it faster
to throw directly or lob the ball to them

You've given me a lot to think about here. All are things I myself when watching it was blind to until pointed out. Exactly the point. Much of what I do was the old school way (like my follow through for example) and I was taught by an even older school guy. What worked great then only kinda works now. I haven't talked to him in 10 years but rest assured he's still doing it the way he always has. I myself will be getting caught up with the times with all the help you have given me.. Thank you guys for all the incite thus far this is valuable information to me.

NOTE: your second link to photobucket gives an error when trying to open it.

[boatman37]

That youtube video is interesting. There are a few bowlers in our league (including our PSO) that are younger, probably early 30's, and they have this weird motion before releasing. It looks like they move the ball closer to their center (almost behind their knee) then sort of push their hand forward and rotate their wrist around They get a ton of revs and are all averaging in the 220's so it must be working for them. Wondering if this is what they are doing? Seems to me like too many different movements to screw up? I know much of this game is about consistency so I try to keep it simple but these guys get killer revs and pin action.

[Phonetek]

That youtube video is interesting. There are a few bowlers in our league (including our PSO) that are younger, probably early 30's, and they have this weird motion before releasing. It looks like they move the ball closer to their center (almost behind their knee) then sort of push their hand forward and rotate their wrist around They get a ton of revs and are all averaging in the 220's so it must be working for them. Wondering if this is what they are doing? Seems to me like too many different movements to screw up? I know much of this game is about consistency so I try to keep it simple but these guys get killer revs and pin action.

That video Bowl posted earlier really shows that new release and exactly how to do it. I'm a creature of habit but I'm not stubborn about it. I'm gonna give it a shot. I know it can't be as easy as it looks in the video but what the hell I'll try anyway. I'm not even doing my release properly so I don't think I have much to lose.

[boatman37]

That shot of Cho Young-Seon at about the 11:50 mark looks similar to what these guys are doing. It's like they are moving the ball closer to their centerline on the backswing and getting their hand directly behind the ball then sort of like a flick of the wrist or elbow back to the outside. Noticed 2 or 3 one one team do it then a newer bowler that said this is his 2nd year also does it.

I do know I changed my stance a few years before I quit (so late 90's). I used to stand with the ball in front of my chest with elbow bent but to try to slow the ball down I now stand with the ball just in front of my hip and I turn my wrist towards my stomach so my fingers are towards the center of my body and my thumb is towards my outside (sort of like Missy Parkin has her hand at about the 1:54 mark but my ball is way lower near my hip.

Interesting. Never really paid much attention other than knowing I changed mine years ago and noticing the guys in my league with that funky release...lol