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Thread: Bowling in 1980?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    That explains a lot.
    Okay, you want explanation. First, your referral to the position of your fingers as you start your approach indicates that you are throwing the ball rather than rolling the ball. Back to 1980. We had to throw the ball, because with no core and a very week cover, the only way to get the ball to hook was by moving the fingers around the ball very quickly after the thumb exited the ball. Today, regardless of where the fingers are at the start, the hand is always behind the ball as the thumb exits, and the fingers rotate through the ball, never around it. Today the best release is the one with the biggest lag between when the thumb exits, and when the fingers exit. The initial position of the fingers at the time that the thumb exits the ball, along with the amount of rotation through the ball determines your axis tilt and your axis rotation... how the ball hooks, not how much it hooks. You really need to find a qualified coach to help you to learn the modern game.

    BTW, I never argue anything semantically. I simply try to use the written word to communicate something (bowling) that is very difficult to explain without hands on, direct personal communication. If one picture is worth a thousand words, then one lesson is worth a million!

  2. #22
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    The vast majority of League bowlers throw the ball "old style" and I guarantee they mostly use the new balls. I know that I can get the ball to hook more or less by the way I throw it.
    What would yo say the average age of league bowlers would be? I would guess over 40 most work more hours than they used to. They don't have time to learn how to use the new style of bowling. New style bowlers don't slide. They have very high back swings. That is hard to do with bad knees, legs, back and old age.
    Remember all lanes are not equal. Wood vrs. synthetic. Different oil patterns.
    Yes bowlers can make the new balls hook more or less. That general statement was what my problem was. I am sure you know a lot about bowling and how to coach but blanket statements are silly.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post

    BTW, I never argue anything semantically. I simply try to use the written word to communicate something (bowling) that is very difficult to explain without hands on, direct personal communication. If one picture is worth a thousand words, then one lesson is worth a million!
    I write scientific protocols for a living so I'm usually very literal in my interpretations of things. When I write a protocol there may be a dozen principal investigators who will take my protocol and actually perform what the protocol says to do. Sometimes when I get all the data back I realize that the study was done a dozen different ways because of how it was interpreted. So I understand how frustrating it can be to write what you want to say and have it be misinterpreted into something else. As a noob bowler who is here to learn and try and better my game, it's almost like reading a foreign language sometimes trying to understand what some of you folks who have been in the game for years are trying to say. I wasn't trying to argue with you. Sorry I'm a noob and make you bash your head in the wall.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    The vast majority of League bowlers throw the ball "old style" and I guarantee they mostly use the new balls. I know that I can get the ball to hook more or less by the way I throw it.
    What would yo say the average age of league bowlers would be? I would guess over 40 most work more hours than they used to. They don't have time to learn how to use the new style of bowling. New style bowlers don't slide. They have very high back swings. That is hard to do with bad knees, legs, back and old age.
    Remember all lanes are not equal. Wood vrs. synthetic. Different oil patterns.
    Yes bowlers can make the new balls hook more or less. That general statement was what my problem was. I am sure you know a lot about bowling and how to coach but blanket statements are silly.
    The majority of the high average bowlers that I coach are seniors. Your belief that most seniors cannot learn how to use a modern release is based on your own personal experiences and the fears that come along with them. Once bowlers learn that a modern release has nothing to do with not sliding or a high backswing, a modern release is pretty easy to achieve for anyone who is willing to drop their preconceptions. My "blanket statement" that all reactive balls hook the same amount is a true statement based on how the amount of hook is measured. If you use the traditional measurement of the number of boards covered, then you are not taking into account that a ball that hooks earlier will cover more boards than one that hooks later. If you look at the size of the angle used to measure the change of direction, then you will see that all of the balls hook the same amount, based on the release of the individual bowler.

    Please understand that my reason for starting this thread in the first place was to try and help the bowlers who choose to frequent these boards. I am not attacking you or your style of bowling. If you are bowling in a league on a house shot, you're probably pretty successful at it. Some bowlers, however, want to succeed on more difficult sport patterns, and I can honestly say that the "old style" of throwing the ball does not work very well in that situation. The two bowlers I wrote about at the beginning are a good example, at least one of them; the 220 average league bowler. Two or three years ago before my back totally gave out on me, I bowled in a small tournament with him. Despite the fact that I was averaging about 195 at the time in league, I beat him easily in the tournament. His high game that day, on a real pattern was 168. His lack of understanding of the modern game was the only reason that I was able to do this. Once he couldn't blindly throw the ball to the right and have it radar its way back to the pocket, he was lost.

    If you want to learn something here, I will do everything I can to help you, but you really need to stop seeing my efforts as a personal attack on you and your beliefs.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    My "blanket statement" that all reactive balls hook the same amount is a true statement based on how the amount of hook is measured.
    This right here Rob is what causes some of the confusion when you make those kind of statements. You don't include the "this is how I define "_____"" with the original statement.

    Example maybe You could have said: "All reactive balls hook the same amount, With hook being defined/measured this way......"


    If you use the traditional measurement of the number of boards covered, then you are not taking into account that a ball that hooks earlier will cover more boards than one that hooks later.
    A ball that hooks earlier doesn't necessarily cover more boards than one that hooks later.


    Here's a simple example:
    The illustration is not remotely to scale and so the ball paths are slightly distorted and would look different on a actual lane.


    Which ball hooked more?

    Most would say the Red ball "Hooked" more because they see it make that dramatic angle change, It went long and snapped hard. But both balls (Red & Black) have covered the same amount of boards (Both Frontend Boards Covered (FBC) and Backend Boards Covered (BBC), The only difference was just where the ball made it's change in direction (How early it "hooked").

    As you see both balls went out to the 8 board, the black ball reacted earlier and the red ball later, They both covered the same amount boards though.


    If you look at the size of the angle used to measure the change of direction, then you will see that all of the balls hook the same amount, based on the release of the individual bowler.
    Heres another one:


    Now here if we define "hook" as total backend boards covered you can say all three ball hooked the same because they covered the same amount of backend boards regardless of how early or late they hooked.
    Last edited by bowl1820; 09-07-2018 at 01:24 PM.

    Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798

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  6. #26

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    Thanks for the clarification, Al. Unfortunately, my back and neck problems make it too painful to sit at the computer for more than eight or nine minutes at a time. Sometimes I just don't have the time and focus to make my writing perfect. Boy, I really miss the days when I could write full length articles for BTM, sitting at the computer for as long as it took.

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