Handicap and Bowling

[TTREX]

Sadly we no longer have scratch leagues, that went away 20 years ago, and even then there was only one that i knew of.

My question is this: How can USBC claim that higher average bowlers have the advantage?

When i look at league standing sheets every week over the last 20 years, the top three teams always getting into the roll off have the highest handicap of every team in the league. yes the highest handicap teams always stay at the top majority of the time, while the higher average teams stay in the middle or down towards the bottom of the standing sheet.

The teams who average over 200 which are few lose more often than not to those who keep there average low. The lower average bowler for example a lady who's average is low rolls a 221 game scratch and her total with handicap is over 300, actually it was 314 total. She with handicap beats a guy who rolls games over 230 scratch on a regular basis, but only when she has to.

This happens every week, every month, year after year. So how does the high average bowler have the advantage?

[Amyers]

Sounds like you have more problems with bowlers purposely deflating their averages than you do handicap. If people aren't purposely defrauding the system its pretty easy to understand:
a 200 average bowler in a 80% 220 average system gets 16 pins of handicap, a 150 average bowler gets 56 pins. The 200 average bowler bowls his average 200 so he get 216 that game. The 150 average bowler has a slightly better than average night he rolls 157 so his total is 215. The lower average bowler still loses in this instance even though he technically bowled better than his average that's where the USBC claims the higher average bowler has an advantage.

[mc_runner]

The way leagues have started working around that is either with capped min/max team averages around here in the more competitive leagues as well as a 10-pin drop rule. I may be lucky, but no league I've ever been in has had a real issue with anyone playing around with handicaps (including some big time money leagues)

[fordman1]

set up your league rules correctly and it isn't important. We use 90% from 1100. All team averages are capped at 1050. You can have 2 240, a 200, a 190, and a 180 average bowler and be fine. Over the last 30 years we have had high and low average bowlers win the league. We use a 21 game cushion with a 10 pin drop rule. About 3 years ago we kicked a bowler out of the league for average management. He had a 168 average in a mixed league with 66 games. He bowled in 5 other leagues and all were between 200-215 "but" he never got 21 games in any of those leagues. We go back 3 years and find the highest avg. of 21 games or more. Actually after being told he would be rerated he quit. I reported it to the local USBC and tried to get him banned.

[boatman37]

In our league we use an 80% of 230. The team with the highest average in our league usually finishes closer to the bottom than the top (currently they are 7th of 8 in their division). These guys averages are 200, 220, 208, 213 and 221. My team has the highest total scratch and highest total handicap included, in our division and our averages are 196, 201, 200, 198, and 173 (we are in a different division but both of us are top dogs in our division in terms of total pins (both scratch and handicap). Odd that the team with the highest handicap score in the league could be in next to last but they are. Anyway, their averages are so high that it is tough for them to break a 300 handicap game where our team does it once in awhile. We have 3 guys on our team that can roll 270's any given game. Add their 20-30 handicap and they beat the 230 average bowler that rolls a 280 or even a 290.

So I do see your point in your question. We have both sides of it here in our league. 2 divisions. Us in 1st with highest scratch and handicap total and them in next to last with highest scratch and highest handicap (total). We have 26174 scratch and 30803 handicap while they have 28633 and 30820. I think alot of it is them having very consistent scores where we seem to have 2 or 3 guys do very good when 2 or 3 do average so we end up with a higher total (and i'm usually the one just doing average...lol).

[TTREX]

I truly appreciate all of your input, it shows me just how bad it is here where I live. I will reveal where this is once i move and get settled in somewhere else. I also notice where you all are from state wise, as i observe your input it will help me know who are most honest..etc, This will help me in making choices of where I want to move to. I think it is awesome that there are places where people run the bowling leagues and tournaments in a fair and honest way.

One of our leagues has the handicap set at 100% of 235. There is only one guy who can average 235, but he only done it one year. When he joined the league it was set at 90% of 225. But when he joined the league they raised it to !00% of 235 so that he in there mind would not have an advantage.

[J Anderson]

Sadly we no longer have scratch leagues, that went away 20 years ago, and even then there was only one that i knew of.

My question is this: How can USBC claim that higher average bowlers have the advantage?

When i look at league standing sheets every week over the last 20 years, the top three teams always getting into the roll off have the highest handicap of every team in the league. yes the highest handicap teams always stay at the top majority of the time, while the higher average teams stay in the middle or down towards the bottom of the standing sheet.

The teams who average over 200 which are few lose more often than not to those who keep there average low. The lower average bowler for example a lady who's average is low rolls a 221 game scratch and her total with handicap is over 300, actually it was 314 total. She with handicap beats a guy who rolls games over 230 scratch on a regular basis, but only when she has to.

This happens every week, every month, year after year. So how does the high average bowler have the advantage?

About ten years ago, the USBC published the results of a four year study of handicaps. I do not know the details of the study, and not being a professional researcher, I wouldn’t be able to assess the validity of their methods. The gist of the study was even at 100% handicap, 70% of the time the league was won by a team with an average above the mean average of the league. This does not mean that the team with the best average is going to win every year. It does mean that the top half of the league has a big advantage over the lower half.
It seems to me that Amyers has it right and you’re surrounded by a bunch of sandbaggers.

[TTREX]

J Anderson you are 100% correct, majority of this bowling town are professional sandbaggers. They teach every new bowler who joins to do this. I am talking about people on the local board of directors, they will deny it if anyone confronts them, but they do teach and promote sandbagging. I am too honest, i refuse to conform and they hate me for it. I will move away from here and never look back. Thanks again for all the input, it is great to know that this is an isolated area doing this and that it is not wide spread.

[boatman37]

Too add to what I posted, our fall/winter league is 90% on 230 and our summer league is 80% of total team averages (only 2 man teams). So if team 1 has a 400 average and team 2 has a 380 average then team 2 gets 16 pins. Our summer league the highest average was 230 and the next was a 229. It was a bigger money league and we had top bowlers from all around (about 80 bowlers). Our fall/winter league I think last year the highest average was about 225. So far this year the top averages are 221.13, 220.67, and 220.67. The first few weeks of this league we had a couple guys in the 230's so they were over the handicap max.

[classygranny]

Our Friday morning mixed league has a 100% handicap of 230. If you think about it, what this actually means is that the team that bowls the most over their average (or the least under average) will win. Mentally, I think the bowlers feel this is a very fair method of handicapping.

If I have a 170 average and 60 pins handicap and bowl a 180, only 10 pins over my average - I would have a 240 handicap game. If my partner averages 200 and has 30 pins of handicap bowls a 208, then she would have a handicap game of 238 and I would win. Which in essence, I bowled 10 pins better than my average and she only bowled 8 over, so I should win.