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Thread: Handicap and Bowling

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by classygranny View Post
    Our Friday morning mixed league has a 100% handicap of 230. If you think about it, what this actually means is that the team that bowls the most over their average (or the least under average) will win. Mentally, I think the bowlers feel this is a very fair method of handicapping.

    If I have a 170 average and 60 pins handicap and bowl a 180, only 10 pins over my average - I would have a 240 handicap game. If my partner averages 200 and has 30 pins of handicap bowls a 208, then she would have a handicap game of 238 and I would win. Which in essence, I bowled 10 pins better than my average and she only bowled 8 over, so I should win.

    In a case like yours it works...

    But here our bowlers have the ability to average 180 to 190, and they can pull out 220 games at will, but they keep there average at around 116 to 120. In this case it is terribly easy for them to break 100 or shoot 120 every week, every game ,no problem. They only shoot 220 games when they have to as when bowling a team who has 190 to 201 average.

    The higher average team lets say they have a good day and shoot 10 pins above there average shooting 211, the 116 average bowler shoots 221 against the higher average bowler's 211. The 116 average bowler who shoots 221 with a handicap of over 100+ pins gets a total score well over 300 than the higher average bowler who cannot accomplish this period!

    In your case it works. In our case it never works!! Some of our bagger's will not be so extreme as this but some do. The ones who don't try to be so obvious will keep there average in the low 150's but can bowl 220 to 230 when they need to.

    No one here care's to do anything about it as it's the best way to win all the roll off's, majority are bagger's, and therefore you cannot vote them out. They are the majority! Most all of our honest non-bagger's have gave up bowling, we only have a few who refuse to resort to bagging.

    So where does that leave me?? I chose to quit. I refuse to give them my money, i will not be a sucker to their game.
    Others like me chose to quit as we cannot compete with this. We still go practice, but we choose to not bowl league and give them our money because of how they work the system.

    The league handicap is set to 100% of 235.

    So why average 235 when all you have to do is average 120 and you still get 235..??

    That is how they do it. That is how they work the system.
    Last edited by TTREX; 11-04-2018 at 10:55 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTREX View Post
    In a case like yours it works...

    But here our bowlers have the ability to average 180 to 190, and they can pull out 220 games at will, but they keep there average at around 116 to 120. In this case it is terribly easy for them to break 100 or shoot 120 every week, every game ,no problem. They only shoot 220 games when they have to as when bowling a team who has 190 to 201 average.

    The higher average team lets say they have a good day and shoot 10 pins above there average shooting 211, the 116 average bowler shoots 221 against the higher average bowler's 211. The 116 average bowler who shoots 221 with a handicap of over 100+ pins gets a total score well over 300 than the higher average bowler who cannot accomplish this period!

    In your case it works. In our case it never works!! Some of our bagger's will not be so extreme as this but some do. The ones who don't try to be so obvious will keep there average in the low 150's but can bowl 220 to 230 when they need to.

    No one here care's to do anything about it as it's the best way to win all the roll off's, majority are bagger's, and therefore you cannot vote them out. They are the majority! Most all of our honest non-bagger's have gave up bowling, we only have a few who refuse to resort to bagging.

    So where does that leave me?? I chose to quit. I refuse to give them my money, i will not be a sucker to their game.
    Others like me chose to quit as we cannot compete with this. We still go practice, but we choose to not bowl league and give them our money because of how they work the system.

    The league handicap is set to 100% of 235.

    So why average 235 when all you have to do is average 120 and you still get 235..??

    That is how they do it. That is how they work the system.
    Just don't understand that mentality. I bowl for fun, not for a living. If I could make a living doing that then I probably would but I bowl to have fun. Sure we have prize money but I didn't sign up for that. I work very hard for my living, last thing I want to do at bowling is work to make money. I do it for the fun and for me the fun is in seeing how good I can do and how good our team is vs. the competition, prize money or no prize money.

    In fact, when I came back to bowling last January my teammates mentioned prize money. I told them I don't remember EVER getting prize money in all my years of bowlinh. They assured me we did. So just goes to show, you remember the bowling, you don't remember the prize.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Just don't understand that mentality. I bowl for fun, not for a living. If I could make a living doing that then I probably would but I bowl to have fun. Sure we have prize money but I didn't sign up for that. I work very hard for my living, last thing I want to do at bowling is work to make money. I do it for the fun and for me the fun is in seeing how good I can do and how good our team is vs. the competition, prize money or no prize money.

    In fact, when I came back to bowling last January my teammates mentioned prize money. I told them I don't remember EVER getting prize money in all my years of bowlinh. They assured me we did. So just goes to show, you remember the bowling, you don't remember the prize.
    I am like you boatman37, I bowl for the fun, back 10 years ago and earlier it was about the fun. My prize was my score's. Sure it's nice when at the end of league you get $250 each team member for the top three teams, but it was not about the money for me. All i done with the money was buy a new bowling ball, so the pro shop got more benefit than anyone as many did that back then.

    Now it has become such a greed driven thing, that us guys who can no longer make the roll off decided one year to do a no tap where who ever bowled highest game for each of the three games of no tap would win the pot, while the others had there roll off, meaning first game if my buddy bowled highest game then he would win a portion of the pot which normally would only be $30. Same for 2nd game and 3rd game. Highest score for each game set won a portion of the pot.

    So that made it fun, but when the bagger's saw what we were doing, meaning bowling no tap for money while they were bowling roll off, they got mad!! So in the league meeting they voted that the no tap would be at the beginning of the league instead of at the end that way they to could get in on the action. So at that point me and my buddies stopped doing that. They took the fun out of it.

    One center one year back when AMF was having there handicap tournaments, this is to give a perfect example: This guy bowled 150 pins above his average to win the prize, the prize was a free trip to Nevada to bowl in the main usbc event out there paid for by AMF. He won by averaging 260 which means his average was about 110 in league. This is only an example not exact numbers as my memory is not perfect. But he did bowl 150 pins above average and i do remember he averaged 260 or better.

    People were furious over this, and his reply was.... This is how I bowl and there is nothing you can do about it!!!!

    Sad but true story.
    Last edited by TTREX; 11-04-2018 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTREX View Post
    The league handicap is set to 100% of 235.
    I just came across an ABC Handicap Manual from 1967. It includes charts to calculate team and individual handicaps. The team charts are for five man teams. The highest base used was 220 per man and the lowest was 180. The percentages were 66 2/3%, 70%, 75%, and 80%. The book also strongly urges that the range of averages should be kept less than 75 pins. In other words, if you have bowlers in the 120s, you should not have bowlers averaging over 200. Likewise, if your top bowlers are in the mid 220s, you wouldn’t have anyone under 150.

    When I started bowling, our league used 80% based on 200. Every year there was one person who would prpose a change to 90%, and it would be voted down every time until some time in the nineties. When we finally had a bowler who averaged over 200 it took a couple years to convince the captains that the base needed to be raised.
    John

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTREX View Post
    In a case like yours it works...

    But here our bowlers have the ability to average 180 to 190, and they can pull out 220 games at will, but they keep there average at around 116 to 120. In this case it is terribly easy for them to break 100 or shoot 120 every week, every game ,no problem. They only shoot 220 games when they have to as when bowling a team who has 190 to 201 average.

    The higher average team lets say they have a good day and shoot 10 pins above there average shooting 211, the 116 average bowler shoots 221 against the higher average bowler's 211. The 116 average bowler who shoots 221 with a handicap of over 100+ pins gets a total score well over 300 than the higher average bowler who cannot accomplish this period!

    In your case it works. In our case it never works!! Some of our bagger's will not be so extreme as this but some do. The ones who don't try to be so obvious will keep there average in the low 150's but can bowl 220 to 230 when they need to.

    No one here care's to do anything about it as it's the best way to win all the roll off's, majority are bagger's, and therefore you cannot vote them out. They are the majority! Most all of our honest non-bagger's have gave up bowling, we only have a few who refuse to resort to bagging.

    So where does that leave me?? I chose to quit. I refuse to give them my money, i will not be a sucker to their game.
    Others like me chose to quit as we cannot compete with this. We still go practice, but we choose to not bowl league and give them our money because of how they work the system.

    The league handicap is set to 100% of 235.

    So why average 235 when all you have to do is average 120 and you still get 235..??

    That is how they do it. That is how they work the system.
    I can't believe there are actually leagues that bad.
    Ever heard of rerating?
    Ever heard of a 10 pin drop rule?
    New bowlers should have to use the highest book avg. in the last 3 years.
    Try a 21 game cushion.
    Use team H\C rather than Ind.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Anderson View Post
    I just came across an ABC Handicap Manual from 1967. It includes charts to calculate team and individual handicaps. The team charts are for five man teams. The highest base used was 220 per man and the lowest was 180. The percentages were 66 2/3%, 70%, 75%, and 80%. The book also strongly urges that the range of averages should be kept less than 75 pins. In other words, if you have bowlers in the 120s, you should not have bowlers averaging over 200. Likewise, if your top bowlers are in the mid 220s, you wouldn’t have anyone under 150.

    When I started bowling, our league used 80% based on 200. Every year there was one person who would prpose a change to 90%, and it would be voted down every time until some time in the nineties. When we finally had a bowler who averaged over 200 it took a couple years to convince the captains that the base needed to be raised.
    I agree with how you guys run your bowling, that is how it should be.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by fordman1 View Post
    I can't believe there are actually leagues that bad.
    Ever heard of rerating?
    Ever heard of a 10 pin drop rule?
    New bowlers should have to use the highest book avg. in the last 3 years.
    Try a 21 game cushion.
    Use team H\C rather than Ind.
    I totally agree with you, that is how it should be done. I am powerless, they are the majority and that is how they like it. So i finally quit. when I move then I can find a decent place to bowl again where things will be fair, but for now i am just simply out of luck.

  8. #18
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    Default sandbaggers where?

    I never heard of real sandbaggers where I bowled. But I can avg. 140. Than get lucky and avg. 186 the next week. And 200 avg. bowler loses 3 games because he avg. 190. Sometimes they yell at me and call me sandbagger or ringer.

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