Honey Badger Gold (Pearl) - Need More Length (THS)

[DHarris75]

Hey everyone - I had one of my worst league nights this past week - new ball syndrome and I couldn't give up on this ball.

Used it out of the box - pro shop spent a lot of time with me and got it fitted just right, and gave me some lesson time using it. Worked on opening up to my target line and letting the ball float off my hand versus coming over it. During weekend lanes (not fresh), I was able to get it to the pocket and posted a few 200+ games with it. Was feeling confident.

League night - I couldn't get it to the pocket for anything. It would come off the pattern and break hard and cross over the head pin or come through the nose. I moved inside, moved target line to the right (and even found the gutter a couple of times) - I tried moving right and increasing speed and breaking wrist. Over the course of 3 games I tried everything I could.

Finally, last few frames, I went back to what I've been using all year (Roto Grip HP3 - I use either a Disturbed or a DareDevil Danger - both with different surfaces) - this night I used the Danger - and threw out the "lesson". I was able to get a few good frames in.

After the game - I was talking to someone on the other team who said I was just using the wrong ball - everything looked good and I was hitting my target it seemed at any given time, but the ball was just too much on the back end for our pattern.

So question: did I waste $200, or is there a way to get this ball to get further down the lane before breaking to the pocket - I wanted an angular ball for when the lanes would break down - but from the reviews, I expected this ball to get further down the lane. It has a 1500 out of the box grit with polish. I sanded it to say 3000 grit and put polish on it - would that give me what I am looking for? I have been experimenting with surface on my HP3 lines, but I don't put polish on them because I want them to be stronger and read early on fresh oil. But this ball was meant to be the ball to get through the heads and break at the end.

[Amyers]

The Honey Badger is a great ball for a lot of bowlers but it has a lot of backend reaction sounds like a bit much in your case. I would suggest nocking the polish off and going to a straight 3k finish on it. Yes it will make it read a little earlier but it will tone down the backend reaction and probably make it more playable for you.

[Aslan]

Amyers and I are discussing (what I see as) your issue in the Force Pearl thread.

Multiple problems with what you posted:

1) You wanted a ball for when lanes break down...yet it appears you used this ball on fresh conditions??
2) A "skid/flip" ball that is a stronger ball to counteract 'carrydown' needs to skid...thus it needs to be a Pearl cover and polished with a decent surface underneath the polish. Your's doesn't have much surface beneath the polish...but whatever...the "skid" isn't a problem with that ball. The PROBLEM...is the 'flip'. You have a ball with a 2.57 RG, a 0.041 diff, and a PerfectScale rating of < 200. The core may be assymetric (good thing for a skid/flip ball)...but these specs lead me to think this is a ball that is ideal for dry lanes and burnt lanes...which is probably why you did so well with it on non-fresh conditions.

Did you waste your money on the new ball? Depends.

If you wanted a skid/flip ball to take out of the bag as a ball #3 to battle carrydown...Yes you did. Changing the surface won't do anything...it's the core that is the problem.

If you wanted a new ball for fresh conditions...a ball #1 or ball #2...Yes, you did. Again, it's not the surface, it's the core.

If you want a pretty nice ball to battle drier lanes or burnt tournament conditions...Absolutely not. This ball would be great for that.

DISCLAIMER:
I don't know your speed, physical condition, nor rev rate. These numbers are based on my higher speed/lower rev rate game. A person with an extremely high rev rate, a very low speed, etc... may be able to use this ball in different spots.

[Amyers]

Amyers and I are discussing (what I see as) your issue in the Force Pearl thread.

Multiple problems with what you posted:

1) You wanted a ball for when lanes break down...yet it appears you used this ball on fresh conditions??
2) A "skid/flip" ball that is a stronger ball to counteract 'carrydown' needs to skid...thus it needs to be a Pearl cover and polished with a decent surface underneath the polish. Your's doesn't have much surface beneath the polish...but whatever...the "skid" isn't a problem with that ball. The PROBLEM...is the 'flip'. You have a ball with a 2.57 RG, a 0.041 diff, and a PerfectScale rating of < 200. The core may be assymetric (good thing for a skid/flip ball)...but these specs lead me to think this is a ball that is ideal for dry lanes and burnt lanes...which is probably why you did so well with it on non-fresh conditions.

Did you waste your money on the new ball? Depends.

If you wanted a skid/flip ball to take out of the bag as a ball #3 to battle carrydown...Yes you did. Changing the surface won't do anything...it's the core that is the problem.

If you wanted a new ball for fresh conditions...a ball #1 or ball #2...Yes, you did. Again, it's not the surface, it's the core.

If you want a pretty nice ball to battle drier lanes or burnt tournament conditions...Absolutely not. This ball would be great for that.

DISCLAIMER:
I don't know your speed, physical condition, nor rev rate. These numbers are based on my higher speed/lower rev rate game. A person with an extremely high rev rate, a very low speed, etc... may be able to use this ball in different spots.

Many bowlers start with polished balls it's not even unusual especially on a house shot their is dry their to work with. His issue was over hooking it's not going to hook less later in a set unless it's burning up and if that's an issue it's time to put it away.

Skid flip isn't really for break down only when you believe it's going to be the more effective line

[DHarris75]

Thank you!

When I was doing my research and talking with my pro shop - he felt this would be a great ball to go to late in the second game / third game. But, he also said I could use it on the fresh and just flatten the wrist out a bit. I brought it out during practice and also threw my reactive - and felt that perhaps the pro was right as my first couple of shots were decent. So game 1 starts - and I decided to start with it. Some shots I could get to the pocket and when it did, the pins exploded - but it felt as if my margin for error was very small. Two boards to the left of where I was targeting the break point, and it hooked through the nose (or worse) a board the right and it was off to the gutter.

The lanes might have been drier than normal - when I did give up and went back to my reactive (what I've been using all 3 games all year), it also hooked too much. I should have stayed with it because it could have just been needing me to readjust my target. But I didn't - I went back to the Pearl. Even on the 3d game, I just couldn't get it to the pocket.

If it would skid about 3 or 4 feet more, it would be perfect.

Thanks again for the input! The whole reason I was looking for a new ball was because while I love the reactive (I have one sanded to 2000 and one at 3000), once I'm into the 3d game, they read too early and hook through the nose (even though I am pretty far inside). I wanted to be able to move back to my starting spot and have something that would get through the heads clean and break on the back end. This ball seems to do that wonderfully - just about 4 or 5 feet too soon for where I play I guess.

By the way - I'm still new to this, but trying to learn - my first league (outside of military intramurals when I was younger, where we just used it as an excuse to get together and drink - lol).

[Amyers]

Thank you!

When I was doing my research and talking with my pro shop - he felt this would be a great ball to go to late in the second game / third game. But, he also said I could use it on the fresh and just flatten the wrist out a bit. I brought it out during practice and also threw my reactive - and felt that perhaps the pro was right as my first couple of shots were decent. So game 1 starts - and I decided to start with it. Some shots I could get to the pocket and when it did, the pins exploded - but it felt as if my margin for error was very small. Two boards to the left of where I was targeting the break point, and it hooked through the nose (or worse) a board the right and it was off to the gutter.

The lanes might have been drier than normal - when I did give up and went back to my reactive (what I've been using all 3 games all year), it also hooked too much. I should have stayed with it because it could have just been needing me to readjust my target. But I didn't - I went back to the Pearl. Even on the 3d game, I just couldn't get it to the pocket.

If it would skid about 3 or 4 feet more, it would be perfect.

Thanks again for the input! The whole reason I was looking for a new ball was because while I love the reactive (I have one sanded to 2000 and one at 3000), once I'm into the 3d game, they read too early and hook through the nose (even though I am pretty far inside). I wanted to be able to move back to my starting spot and have something that would get through the heads clean and break on the back end. This ball seems to do that wonderfully - just about 4 or 5 feet too soon for where I play I guess.

By the way - I'm still new to this, but trying to learn - my first league (outside of military intramurals when I was younger, where we just used it as an excuse to get together and drink - lol).

What are your other two balls?

[Aslan]

Many bowlers start with polished balls it's not even unusual especially on a house shot their is dry their to work with.

Maybe...like I said, without seeing his speed and rev rate...I can't say it's a bad choice.

His issue was over hooking it's not going to hook less later in a set unless it's burning up and if that's an issue it's time to put it away.

I read that he wanted something to have an angular backend when the lanes broke down.

Skid flip isn't really for break down only when you believe it's going to be the more effective line

Everyone and their uncle wants a ball that "goes long and has an angular backend motion". I used to hang out in the pro shop and literally 95% of bowlers looking for a ball...described that as what they wanted.

The advice I'd give is...the first ball should be a matte solid with a strong core and low RG/high diff. The second ball, as the lanes transition, should be a hydrid...maybe some buffing compound...higher RG than ball #1...less diff. Ball #3 should be a assymetric, low RG/high diff, polished pearl skid/flip ball that is able to skid through the beat up, transitioned lanes...but have the strength to turn the corner in carrydown. Ball #4 should be a higher RG, lower Diff...probably symmetric core...probably Pearl, lower diff ball that can get downlane when the lanes have really, really transitioned.

That strategy 'should' allow the bowler to play a 7-board area of most THS environments. Heavier oil you just start further right...drier conditions you start further left. The concept of trying 3-4 balls every night on each side of the pair...different speeds, different hand positions...3-4-5 step approaches...probably good advice for high level tournament players that see crazy oil patterns and bowl in wildly different environments...but probably more of a distraction for 97% of bowlers. IMO

[DHarris75]

Aslan - thank you.

Yeah - I tried to do my research. I didn't just jump. But when you read the reviews on the Honey Badger Gold, they generally describe what I was looking for. I'd say I'm a tweener - I usually come in on board 18-20 between the 3d and 4th arrow and hit the breakpoint about 40 feet down around board 9 or 10.

I have a Roto Grip DareDevil Danger and a RotoGrip Disturbed (HP3).

Disturbed: Solid Reactive / RG - 2.5 / Diff - 0.043 (currently sanded to a 3000 grit)
Danger: Hybrid Reactive / RG - 2.48 / Diff - 0.041 (currently sanded to a 2000 grit)
Honey Badger Gold: Pearl / RG - 2.57 / Diff 0.041 (out of the box - 1500 grit / polished)
Plastic for spares

Starting season, didn't know anything about anything. Bought the Danger not realizing it is pretty much same ball as my older Disturbed - same shape, strong, reads early and smooth - control. My average is only 157, but I have streaks where I can bowling between 550 and 612, but can be inconsistent and bowl a 400 or 450. With just those two balls, I can bowl a 230 or a 140. But I've been getting better as the season goes on and my average is creeping up week over week (for instance - before this past week's disaster with this ball, I had 234/177/201 night, and a 182/188/186 night). I guess I shouldn't complain - I was just trying to take that next step and have something to go to when the other two were not working (which happens - evidence of a 153/159/104 night several weeks back). Would like to get to 200 more consistently.

But I started to be able to recognize when I needed to make adjustments / transition. However, as I moved left, the ball would lose its power on the back end and I'd see more splits / ringing 10s. I've been reading and trying to learn about adjustments, transitions, etc - I'm too competitive to not try and get better. I know it takes time and practice - and that's what I'm doing. But I wanted to take the next step and have a ball to go to when the stronger balls were too strong. They are great on fresh - they dig through the oil and make a smooth curve back to the pocket. It's just later on, it's too much.

I was hoping this one would skid further before it makes it's flip. The flip is great...great reaction down the lane - just can't get it to as long as I think I need it to before it makes it's move to the pocket.

While I've been experimenting with surface on the other two balls, I have not tried using anything with polish. What I didn't know is how grit / surface works with polish. If you put polish on the ball, how much does the surface still affect the friction? IE: If I go from 1500 grit + polish to 3000 grit with polish, or 3000 grit without polish - what would the differences be (with a pearl specifically - but even in general).

Thanks again guys - I still have a LOT TO LEARN and I want to.

[bowl1820]

I moved inside, moved target line to the right (and even found the gutter a couple of times) - I tried moving right and increasing speed and breaking wrist. Over the course of 3 games I tried everything I could.

By moving left and then throwing farther right (which I assume you did because you said you found the gutter), you were throwing into the dry just that much more (and probably earlier also). I'm guessing The ball probably then either started hooking just that much harder or would roll out and not make it back.

What you needed was more length, when you moved left with your feet. You should have also targeted inside more, this would have kept your ball in the oil longer. Which would have let the ball get farther down the lane before moving.


Amyers suggestion about knocking the polish off is a option also, it would even out the reaction some.

[DHarris75]

Yeah - I tried both. Moved feet left and kept target, and moved parallel by moving feet and target left. I had two outcomes - gutter or through the nose or past the head pin. Just couldn't get it to the pocket - or even to hit light for that matter.

I was really trying everything. I didn't want to just keep throwing the same shot and "hoping" - I was experimenting trying to find a line I could play. Even went up the 5 board and flattened wrist to almost end over end, and it did what I thought it would - read the friction outside and read early - through the nose.

It was the like the ball just had a mind of it's own and it was going to hit to the left of the head pin (I'm a righty) or it was going off the rails into the gutter. A few shots I was able to get to the pocket - and it felt like there was a line i could play, but it had to be just perfect - so I'd strike, try to hit the same line again and it would be a little too early and go through the front.

One shot I was able to get it to the edge and it bounced off the friction and came screaming back for a strike. Was beautiful to see - but not really what I wanted...too far outside. Couldn't replicate - tried it again and in the gutter. Moved target left a couple of boards and it went too early and crossed over (split - a 4-10 - which I magically picked up with the same ball - rolled it up 7 and it grazed past the 4 with just enough to push it over to the 10. The lanes on both sides clapped - then my next shot went through the nose again. Not as dramatic lol.

Anyway - thanks everyone for their advice. I'll see what sanding it to 3000 grit with no polish does for me. It might read earlier than I was hoping for, but maybe smooth out the reaction enough to make it useful.

Maybe the right answer is that it was just too much back end for my house on a regular league night / THS.