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Thread: ball reaction vs inconsistent bowler?

  1. #51
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    I see what Rob is saying. My only 'worry'...is I've seen bowlers try to 'outsmart' opponents by staying inside of them...and it was disasterous.

    Like ALS's post...if you only have a handful of boxes "light up"...you probably should play those speeds/areas/etc....not try to outsmart your opponent. Because, it really could put you at a disadvantage. You may be able to average 195 in the track...moving inside or outside and suddenly you're in the 175 range...'hoping' that you can mess with your opponent enough that they struggle even more.

    @ALS...your example makes sense, but like I said earlier...there 189 possible combinations. If you limit yourself to one release, one speed, one approach, one area of the lane...then it's just a matter of what ball to pick. And, you can probably start with the same ball 95% of the time (THS, same center). As soon as you start moving around the approach to play different lines...things go from 4 options to 8 options to 12 options. And you have LIMITED TIME. Even if every single one of your 'boxes' is lit up...you don't have the 2-hour and 6 minute warm-up you'd need to try them all.

    So...has the dead horse been severely beaten yet??
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    I see what Rob is saying. My only 'worry'...is I've seen bowlers try to 'outsmart' opponents by staying inside of them...and it was disasterous.

    Like ALS's post...if you only have a handful of boxes "light up"...you probably should play those speeds/areas/etc....not try to outsmart your opponent. Because, it really could put you at a disadvantage. You may be able to average 195 in the track...moving inside or outside and suddenly you're in the 175 range...'hoping' that you can mess with your opponent enough that they struggle even more.

    @ALS...your example makes sense, but like I said earlier...there 189 possible combinations. If you limit yourself to one release, one speed, one approach, one area of the lane...then it's just a matter of what ball to pick. And, you can probably start with the same ball 95% of the time (THS, same center). As soon as you start moving around the approach to play different lines...things go from 4 options to 8 options to 12 options. And you have LIMITED TIME. Even if every single one of your 'boxes' is lit up...you don't have the 2-hour and 6 minute warm-up you'd need to try them all.

    So...has the dead horse been severely beaten yet??
    This sort of reminded me of Ted Williams book, The Science of Hitting. He had graphs of different batters’ strike zones with different batting averages for each position a ball could cross the plate. His theory was to improve your overall average you stopped swinging at balls that you wouldn’t be likely to hit even if they might be strikes and waited for a pitch that you were two or three times more likely to get a base hit from.

    With bowling, if the area where you get your best carry transitions, or just plain isn’t there to start, you have to make the right adjustment, whether it’s a move, a ball change, or a technique change. If you don’t, that area where you’re usually a 195 bowler becomes an area where you’re lucky to break 175.
    John

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALazySavage View Post
    With this analogy, what we also need to recognize that while we are all playing on the "same" lane each individual is playing with their own customized board. I may have 60% of the board available to me (exaggerated for the example), but when my wife bowls (who has one ball, one speed, can move laterally a little bit, and 2 releases) she may only have 4% of the board available. Our goals and expectations should be different at this point, I am hoping to string strikes while she is hoping to get good count on her first ball.
    This is a very important point, and the reason that I am so adamant about the need to find the line that is working for you each time you bowl. Since my back and neck began falling apart, I can only generate about 10 mph in ball speed. With so little speed, I am limited to using very non-aggressive equipment and have no choice but to use everything the lanes are giving me on every outing. While I can only average 190, I can occasionally shoot some very good scores when I am successful finding my own path to the pocket. Unfortunately, there are also some days where my options are so severely limited that I can bowl very well and just depend on my spare shooting for any scoring that I can do. This is the reason that it drives me absolutely nuts when bowlers who have the physical ability to bowl insist on playing their "usual" line.

  4. #54
    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    I think we've delved into other topics beyond practice and what to try here. I am not suggesting changing your mechanics, trying to out smart your opponents, or do things your not comfortable with here. My simple point was you should be comfortable enough with your arsenal to start with any ball in your bag under average circumstances. You should know if you throw Ball B down the line I can pick up Ball A or Ball C make a small adjustment and strike on a regular basis.

    The simple idea that only certain balls are useful only if certain requites are met is wrong headed in most instances. If your good enough to own an arsenal you should be good enough to move a few boards right or left to try those balls out. If your not you probably shouldn't own multiple balls.
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  5. #55
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    Had the Kingpin at 2000 last time out and it was almost identical to the Conspiracy at 2000 so yesterday took the Kingpin to 3000 on the spinner. Didn't bowl last week since we alternate 3 bowlers on a 2 man team. Will see how it goes tonight but lanes seem to be drier the past 4 or 5 weeks.
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  6. #56
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    Well going to 3000 didn't make much difference. It was maybe 1/2 board difference compared to the Conspiracy. Tonight was tough. Had to be perfectly in the pocket or no strikes. 4 game series and only had 8 strikes on the night. Lanes were pretty wet tonight.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  7. #57
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    Boatman, I personally would be going with a much wider range in regards to the surface - something like 1000 and 4000 so that you can see one read much earlier than the other (I'm not going to read all of the previous posts, but I don't know if we really discussed the topic of ball shape/motion rather than range of hook). My personal goal when building and prepping my arsenal is not necessarily to create a range of how much a ball changes motion left to right, but rather front to back, and then tweaking my physical game to match up best to the lanes and fill in the gaps between each ball.

    For example, I have three balls that I believe have the potential to be my starting ball when bowling on the Del Ballard sport pattern tonight (Hammer Black Widow Urethane @500, Roto Grip Hyper Cell @1000 [asymmetric], Roto Grip Idol @2000 [symmetric]). Without getting into too much detail, how they are drilled and prepped each ball has a very distinct shape from one another (and from the other two balls that I could step down to). Say after throwing a few shots in practice I determine that the Hyper Cell gives me the best look to start, bowl with it for a game and then notice transition (the ball rolling too early), but I like the overall shape of the ball - I have a few options.

    (a) I could do something that will help my ball get down the lane physically: increase ball speed, decrease revs, change my rotation/tilt, move my feet/mark, etc. (yes, there are other options as well).
    (b) I could make a ball change. This alone will work if my ball characteristics are very similar so that the change is minor, but the problem becomes that I am only done with one game and I've already had to transition balls (very much a problem with smaller arsenals). This is why I advocate the larger range of motions (and in this thread it is done with ball surface since that is the only information we have), because if they are close I have really limited my options when a subtle physical game change to the first ball can create the same change.
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Storm IQ Tour Emerald (@1500 polished), Storm Phaze 4 (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

  8. #58
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    "@ALS...your example makes sense, but like I said earlier...there 189 possible combinations. If you limit yourself to one release, one speed, one approach, one area of the lane...then it's just a matter of what ball to pick. And, you can probably start with the same ball 95% of the time (THS, same center). As soon as you start moving around the approach to play different lines...things go from 4 options to 8 options to 12 options. And you have LIMITED TIME. Even if every single one of your 'boxes' is lit up...you don't have the 2-hour and 6 minute warm-up you'd need to try them all."

    Aslan, have you ever played or heard of the concept of Guess Who? To make the math easy - 5 balls (Benchmark, longer/sharper, longer/smoother, earlier/sharper, earlier/smoother) x 3 speeds (faster, normal, smoother) x 3 releases (aggressive, normal, soft) x 3 lines (inside, track, outside) x 3 rotations (low, normal, high)… or 405 combinations.

    First shot, I throw my benchmark ball up the track with normal speed, release, rotation - the ball reacts early and goes through the face. Well, I'm going to make an adjustment that helps the ball react later down the lane - what I'm not going to do is something that helps the ball roll earlier down the lane. Thus I have eliminated both earlier balls (3 remaining), my slower speed (2 remaining), my aggressive release (2 remaining), its a house shot so the outside line (2 remaining), and the lower rotation (2 remaining)… down to 48 combinations.

    Second Shot, I decided to make a ball change so I go with my longer/smoother ball - I really like the shape of the ball, but it lagged a little bit on the backends. I have the ball I want in my hand (1 remaining) and I have found my line (1 remaining) - I need to make a small change that helps the ball go longer down the lane saving some energy at the breakpoint, I can change my speed (2 remaining), alter my release (2 remaining), or adjust my rotation (2 remaining)...down to 8 combinations.

    Third Shot, same ball and same line...I don't really like speed adjustments (1 remaining - normal), I soften my release so that it doesn't read so early (1 remaining - softer), and I still have the two rotations (normal, higher)...down to 2 combinations. Ball hit pretty well, but I want just a little more backend reaction to help tap out the corner pin.


    Fourth Shot: Later/Smooth ball, softer release, normal speed, up the track, with a higher rotation to promote a later reaction. Ball hits well and I get a pretty good look - it may not be the best of my 405 combinations, but it is pretty good so I will stick with it and adjust as needed. Assuming a normal house shot that typically forces the ball later or the line inside I have the following adjustments - the longer/sharper reacting ball, the move left to the inside, I can increase my speed...these will all allow me to make the typical house shot adjustments, this did not take the 2 hours of practice time and I think four shots is a fair assumption for practice.

    Now before you jump on me and say that I'm assuming the first shot is close, earlier we were complaining that this was a house shot and that everyone should have a pretty good idea what was going to happen walking in the door.
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Storm IQ Tour Emerald (@1500 polished), Storm Phaze 4 (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

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