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Thread: what to do when nothing works???

  1. #11
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    "Also, last night one of our opponents mentioned he has to throw urethane. He didn't elaborate or say why but would a urethane have worked if my other stuff was burning up?"


    I will be the first to say I love urethane, it is very controllable and I will pull it out of the bag when the shot is challenging and scoring pace is slow. If your urethane piece is oil soaked and hasn't been touched with surface for a long time you might be able to get away with it in this situation but there are going to be better choices out there. The misunderstanding around urethane is that when the marketing materials around it are put out they describe urethane as a light oil option and people assume that this means when there is little oil left or at the end of a block. In most instances urethane requires early hook to react properly and when you are talking about later in a block/league that is typically what you are trying to avoid/counter - the hate/difficulty around urethane is two-fold (a) depending on the flare characteristics of the ball you may create some carry-down which the urethane pieces can have trouble against (not going to get into a modern equipment argument on this - just keep in mind it is a great mind trick to make some bowlers who are set in their ways to think that you are ruining their shot) and (b) most importantly urethane typically has a lot of surface and you are destroying the fronts of the pattern - combine this with the characteristics of urethane and you can get something that burns up all of its energy early on. Personally if we are talking about equipment burning up you are much better off using equipment that gets down lane and conserves energy.
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Roto Grip MVP (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

  2. #12
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    Can't get the post to allow me to edit, when I say carry down with urethane and affecting urethane I'm using an environment where you do not have oil soaking equipment (this is where the modern equipment comes in play) cleaning up the breakpoint...remember that Urethane is not really a modern technology and the oil just sits on the surface. Right handed bowlers will likely have more players using the equipment that sucks up oil and thus reducing/eliminating such a change being created by one urethane piece - if you are playing urethane and that is giving you a part of the lane no one else is playing (or only other urethane players) you could potentially cause a carry down affect to urethane, but that is a pretty rare situation.
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Roto Grip MVP (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

  3. #13

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    If you are using a modern urethane ball with a core, the carrydown argument is nonsense. If the ball is flaring, and a new track of surface is hitting the lane on each rotation, where does the carrydown come from? ... and please don't tell me that the one inch segment at the bow tie leaves little marks that do anything to affect the ball.

  4. #14
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    Rob I agree with that, throwing urethane equipment with significant core properties...Hot Cells, BW Urethane, etc....will not create carry down (I have tried this argument for almost a year now when I want to throw urethane on the lanes - asymmetrical, high flaring). What I do see locally is people getting low flaring urethane (black hammer, pitch black) and then demanding that the drilling be so muted that it is essentially causing the ball not to flare signfiicantly because the perception is that they should be able to transition down to this equipment when the lanes get dry (especially those scared to move inside). What I am seeing with this is chewed up fronts, the ball picks up some oil in the midlane but at that point it has already used up its energy and could essentially carry down oil (granted a small enough amount that it should not affect the bowler, but if you have enough traffic it has a slight chance to). There are so many external factors that have to come in play with this that rather than say all of that I rather just claim it as a very rare situation that we don't worry about on the lanes. As we both know on the typical house shot, and hopefully most of this board realizes as well, the standard adjustments should be one of three things - move inside to find more oil, transition to equipment that gets further down lane and conserves energy, or make a hand adjustment to get the ball to be cleaner through the fronts. - all of which we are saying would be the preferred moves in this situation.
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Roto Grip MVP (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

  5. #15

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    A couple of years ago, in conjunction with a BTM article I was preparing, I had a tape taken two feet past the pattern end after a four game block in a trios league. What showed was two streak of carry down, each of them just 2 units of oil. Reactive balls won't "see" two units of oil. I firmly believe that what we are seeing when the ball seems to straighten out late in a set is one of two things: burn-out in the friction, or negative topography that has been exposed as the oil has been absorbed off of the lane.

  6. #16
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    Well tonight worked great. Hit the Black Widow Gold with a 4000 by hand before we started tonight. Tried all 4 in warmups but stuck with the BWG all night. Kept my pinky in tight to my ring finger all night to get a little more rotation. In the past I had usually had it spread away but lately have been keeping it tight. I targeted the 7 board at the arrows all night and only had to move about 1/2 board left by the end of the night as I started hitting light. The Conspiracy was burning up last week and I left alot of corner pins. The BWG goes further down lane before reacting so thought it might be better. For the heck of it I threw my Rhino Pearl in warmups. I only use that ball for 7 pins. It would have even worked tonight if I wanted to use it and had adjusted just a little. I stood in the same spot as I was for the BWG and hit a little light. A 1 board move left would have probably put it right in the pocket.

    I tried watching the breakpoint but couldn't tell much. I didn't try targeting the breakpoint at all cause I had a good night going and didn't want to make any changes that might mess me up.

    My spare shooting was still pretty bad tonight. Not sure why I missed so many easy spares.

    Tonight: 245, 202, 201, 215. 863 series. 215.75 average. My overall average went up 5 pins to 185. Just hope I can keep this up but I do feel a little more confident about ball selection now. I credit tonight with doing a better job of matching the ball to lane conditions.

    Arsenal "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin (at home on the shelf now)" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 17.5 MPH * High Game: 267 - High Series: 657
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  7. #17
    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Well tonight worked great. Hit the Black Widow Gold with a 4000 by hand before we started tonight. Tried all 4 in warmups but stuck with the BWG all night. Kept my pinky in tight to my ring finger all night to get a little more rotation. In the past I had usually had it spread away but lately have been keeping it tight. I targeted the 7 board at the arrows all night and only had to move about 1/2 board left by the end of the night as I started hitting light. The Conspiracy was burning up last week and I left alot of corner pins. The BWG goes further down lane before reacting so thought it might be better. For the heck of it I threw my Rhino Pearl in warmups. I only use that ball for 7 pins. It would have even worked tonight if I wanted to use it and had adjusted just a little. I stood in the same spot as I was for the BWG and hit a little light. A 1 board move left would have probably put it right in the pocket.

    I tried watching the breakpoint but couldn't tell much. I didn't try targeting the breakpoint at all cause I had a good night going and didn't want to make any changes that might mess me up.

    My spare shooting was still pretty bad tonight. Not sure why I missed so many easy spares.

    Tonight: 245, 202, 201, 215. 863 series. 215.75 average. My overall average went up 5 pins to 185. Just hope I can keep this up but I do feel a little more confident about ball selection now. I credit tonight with doing a better job of matching the ball to lane conditions.

    Awesome night bud, hopefully that will help a bit
    I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling forums and ball contest winner

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    900 Global Badger Claw - Radical Ridiculous Pearl - Spare Ball Ebonite T Zone

  8. #18
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    So something else worth mentioning. In our summer league we bowl 2 games against one team then change pairs and bowl 2 more against a different team. Tuesday night we started on 39-40 then the 2nd set we bowled on 1-2. The 2 end sets. Everybody hates these lanes but I usually bowl decent on 39-40. We only bowl on 1-2 in the fall league so I don't bowl on those much.

    So what are the characteristics of the end pairs usually? Would that explain anything as to why I might have bowled so good on them? Usually drier? Dry quicker? Dry slower?

    Just wondering if there is anything I might be able to figure out based on bowling on the 2 end pairs.
    Arsenal "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin (at home on the shelf now)" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 17.5 MPH * High Game: 267 - High Series: 657
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  9. #19
    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    So something else worth mentioning. In our summer league we bowl 2 games against one team then change pairs and bowl 2 more against a different team. Tuesday night we started on 39-40 then the 2nd set we bowled on 1-2. The 2 end sets. Everybody hates these lanes but I usually bowl decent on 39-40. We only bowl on 1-2 in the fall league so I don't bowl on those much.

    So what are the characteristics of the end pairs usually? Would that explain anything as to why I might have bowled so good on them? Usually drier? Dry quicker? Dry slower?

    Just wondering if there is anything I might be able to figure out based on bowling on the 2 end pairs.
    For me its usually the variation between the two lanes with the farthest outside tending to play drier. Not sure why this would help you. Sometimes the differences aren't much but I've seen as much as a full arrow difference while using my strongest ball on one lane and my weakest on the other. Pretty sure the machine broke on that one. still shot 600 and was pretty happy that night.
    I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling forums and ball contest winner

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    900 Global Badger Claw - Radical Ridiculous Pearl - Spare Ball Ebonite T Zone

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Just wondering if there is anything I might be able to figure out based on bowling on the 2 end pairs.
    My experience is that it sometimes has to do with the oiling machine and the staff operating it. Assuming they start oiling on 1-2 there is maybe either little oil (machine just warming up) or possibly the reverse where there are a few extra units there (again machine just worming up). I've never seen both cases (less oil/more oil) at the same house and I think more normal for less oil, but the reason has to do with the warm up of the machine. That said I found that lane 1 is usually worse than lane 2, but both are less oil than any other pair. One or two boards difference between lane one and lane two is not uncommon. Some houses start at the right and work their way left and some start left and work their way right... so it's the 1st lane oiled, or two lanes oiled, that are different if their is any difference.

    The other thing is that at some houses lane one is very close to the wall (no walkway there), so if you need to play deep on lane one you could be brushing the left wall (for right handed players).
    Recently retired and returning to bowing after a 12 year break
    Slower ball speed with dominate revs, prefer strait at the pocket but deep is fine too
    In my bag... Roto Grip Idol Pearl, Storm IQ Tour Emerald, 900 Global White Hot Badger, Storm Match Up Hybrid, Storm Tropical Surge Hybrid, and Storm Tropical Breeze Pearl

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