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Thread: Sym vs Asym and when to use which?

  1. #1
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    Default Sym vs Asym and when to use which?

    So been thinking about a new ball and I don't have any symmetrical balls except the Rhino, which is a low hooking ball anyway. Already have a Black Widow Gold, Kingpin, and Conspiracy. So when would you use a symmetric over asymmetric or vice-versa? I know what the physical difference is but wondering what conditions would favor one over the other?
    Been considering a Squatch pearl or solid but not sure it would be worth it.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  2. #2

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    I really have to question your statement that the Rhino is a low-hooking ball. Once you are in the realm of reactive resin balls with cores, one ball does not hook more than another, it just hooks earlier or later. Noting that you like to play outside, and your scores sheets indicate that you have some troubles with spares that probably indicate inconsistencies in your release, I really don't think that using asymmetrical balls is helping your cause. House shot bowlers who like to live in the track area get more harm than help from asymmetrical balls. Take a look at the Storm Green IQ Pearl. I think that it would be a good ball for you.

  3. #3
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    That's why I asked the question. Been hearing how symmetrical balls are more 'forgiving' and wondering if it might help me.

    As for the Rhino and low hook, the ball might move 4 boards max where my BWG probably moves about 10-15 boards. Maybe I'm not using the right terminology but the Rhino goes almost straight. I do see what you are saying with the BWG vs the Conspiracy. Both move a similar amount but the Conspiracy reads much earlier and is a smoother arc. Might be due to the surface as the Conspiracy is 2000 and the BWG is 3000 and pearl.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  4. #4
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    Hate to keep throwing money at new balls but really thinking about the Squatch pearl. Based on Rob's comments about the symetric ball being a little more forgiving and the fact that my Conspiracy and BWG probably each have over 100 games on them (or really close to it) just thinking of trying something a little different. Lately the BWG has been my favorite ball even though it is my oldest and probably most used. It has been working well when the Conspiracy and Kingpin just haven't. I have it finished at 3000 matte on the spinner (wet). I did have it at 4000 matte by hand before that and liked that too. I did that on a whim at right before warm-ups one night and it worked well. The Conspiracy is at 2000 wet on the spinner. I'm going to put the Kingpin at 1000 (at 500 now and way too aggressive).

    So looking for something very similar to the BWG but in a symetric.

    Thoughts? Or would the Squatch solid be better? Thinking pearl cause I really like the shape of the BWG.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  5. #5

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    Did it occur to you that the BWG has been your favorite BECAUSE it is your oldest and most used? Get it out of your head that stronger is better. I know of a very well-known senior bowler who NEVER touches the surface of his bowling balls and never even cleans them. What he does clean is the clocks of his competitors!

  6. #6
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Much of it is preference related.

    'Generally', symmetric core balls are more popular for a couple reasons:

    1) They tend to be more forgiving when you have a release that isn't consistent.

    2) They don't over-react for older, slower speed bowlers that struggle to stay right (for RHers) of the headpin.

    3) High rev bowlers can get the angularity without needing to move to an assymetric.

    The advantage of assymetric is they can usually help provide a more angular line to the pocket for bowlers that are higher speed and lower rev.

    Just remember, core symmetry is only one of about 9 variables.
    In Bag: (: .) 900 Global Zen Master; (: .) Brunswick Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
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    Ball Speed: 14.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 187

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  7. #7

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    Aslan: What are the 9 variables?

    As you are one of this bowlers who is higher speed and lower rev, have assyms helped?
    ]

  8. #8
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Aslan: What are the 9 variables?
    - Manufacturer
    - Coverstock
    - Surface
    - RG
    - differential
    - drill layout
    - speed
    - axis rotation
    - axis tilt
    - core symmetry

    So yeah, 9 other variables.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    As you are one of this bowlers who is higher speed and lower rev, have assyms helped?
    ]
    Yes...I am higher speed and lower revs. About 16.5-19.5 at the pins...but I doubt I'm cracking 300rpms...probably 240-275 range.

    But no, I've had more luck with symmetric cores than asymmetric cores. I did really well with the Reax Pearl (assymetric) but also did really well with the Scandal Pearl, Melee Jab, and Loaded Revolver...all of which are symmetric cores. I 'think' it goes back to the release consistency. When I throw assymetric "well"....they maximize my entry angle and carry. But I don't have a consistent release/speed...so symmetric cores 'seem' to be a bit more forgiving.
    In Bag: (: .) 900 Global Zen Master; (: .) Brunswick Perfect Mindset; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 192; Lifetime Average = 172;
    Ball Speed: 14.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 187

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  9. #9
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    Rob, I am definitely seeing that stronger is not always better. In my previous bowling life my last ball was a Cobalt Rhino. My ball was pretty straight in comparison to some others so when I came back to bowling I told the PSO I wanted/needed the strongest ball he had. This was because I thought since my natural release hooked very little that I needed a stronger ball. This was part of my misconception about balls. He sold me the BWG as he said it should be a very good ball for me on a THS.

    Later I bought a spinner and pads and quickly hit everything with a low grit pad to get more hook. Realized that isn't the way it works...lol. So yeah, when I came back I was under the impression that I 'needed' a strong ball to get the hook my release didn't generate. Now I see the difference between what looks pretty and what works.

    The BWG did not work well for me at first. Timeline: bought the BWG Feb 6 2018. Used it solely until I bought the Kingpin July 17th. Mainly used the Kingpin but occasionally used the BWG. Once I got the Conspiracy January 2019 the BWG stayed in the bag. Up until then didn't have much success with it. When the summer league started this year I struggled with the Kingpin and Conspiracy so got the BWG out and hit it with a 4000 by hand before warm-ups and it was perfect. Can't say for sure whether it was the new surface I put on it that made it start working for me or if it just happened to be the right conditions. But now none are working. I know most of that is user error and not ball related. But that brings me to the symmetrical question. If consistency is my issue then maybe I should be using a symmetric ball?

    Ballpark numbers here. Bowled 278 games since I came back. Maybe 75 were the Kingpin and the rest the Conspiracy and BWG so probably about 100 each. I do clean them all after every night and have sanded them each several times.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  10. #10
    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    A few things to consider here.

    #1 All balls are asymmetrical once they are drilled I'm really not sure that the real difference here has more to do with core shape than anything.
    #2 We don't get to see you bowl. I have no doubt that their is a class of bowler and a higher speed lefty with lower revs fits the bill that may be helped by an asymmetrical ball maybe they need the extra turn it can provide but their are many who just think they need more also. I've seen a few who think they can shoot spares with a regular ball too but most who make the change are better off.
    #3 We wish we knew everything without buying too and that we were making the right decision but we don't even for our own game and decision we think were correct may have fit our needs at the time but not now.

    My main point here is we can give ideas sometimes but we can't provided the right decision. We have beliefs that are permeated by our own experiences but they may be different than yours. If you can afford it having a good mix of equipment is a good investment in a sport that is cheap to compete in compared to most. A even running symmetrical ball is an obvious hole in the lineup here as long as it's not taking away from something else buy one and get it over with lol. Rob's green iq pearl wouldn't be a bad idea, I haven't seen much of the Radical sasquatch, I like the Hammer Web also not the tour just the regular one too. Practicing some with that Rhino and learning to match your speed and rev rate so that it will move for you might be an excellent exercise also but I might consider getting a spare ball first if you believe it will hook it's amazing how much it will start too.
    I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling forums and ball contest winner

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