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Thread: make sense to drill an earlier hooking ball to go longer or vice-versa?

  1. #1
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    Default make sense to drill an earlier hooking ball to go longer or vice-versa?

    So just wondering and trying to understand ball physics here. So let's say a Kingpin OOB reads earlier than a Black Widow Gold. Would it make sense to drill a Kingpin to read later and the Black Widow Gold to read sooner? Would that be counter productive? Or are there logical reasons to do that. Understanding surface plays a major role too but aside from that. Just been watching alot of Mo's videos and seeing how my balls are all drilled similarly. Just wondering if I buy a new ball that I want to read earlier would it make sense to by a stronger ball and drill it to read later or buy a weaker ball and drill it to read earlier?

    I guess in a nutshell if you wanted a ball that reads earlier why wouldn't you just buy that ball rather than try to accomplish it through layout?

    Not planning om doing this just thinking of 'extremes' to get a better understanding.
    Arsenal "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin (at home on the shelf now)" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 17.5 MPH * High Game: 267 - High Series: 657
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    I guess in a nutshell if you wanted a ball that reads earlier why wouldn't you just buy that ball rather than try to accomplish it through layout?
    Duh! Ya think?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Duh! Ya think?
    And that's why I was asking. If I bought a ball and needed a strong layout why wouldn't I have just bought a stronger ball in the first place? Which has me wondering why do they offer different layouts? Unless you need an extreme so go strong ball with strong layout?
    Arsenal "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin (at home on the shelf now)" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 17.5 MPH * High Game: 267 - High Series: 657
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  4. #4
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    Typically you wouldn't want to do this, as Rob and you said it just doesn't make sense to fight the characteristics of a ball when you can compliment them. Now, I can't say that there isn't some combination that would provide a benefit, but my thought would be that you would have to drill up A LOT of equipment to find this magical combination, you would likely wind up with a lot of poorly rolling equipment, and likely the magical combination wouldn't be so spectacular that it would be worth the effort or significantly better than following the standards. With the amount of equipment that professionals and those under contract drill up, if there was some benefit you would likely have heard something about it and I personally have yet to hear about it.


    In all honesty this is the problem I have seen with some ball raffles locally, someone wins one and tries to force the ball into a part of their bag that doesn't make sense (and they get a pro shop guy or gal to agree to put some funky drilling on it to try and make it happen).
    Currently in the arsenal: Roto Grip Hyper Cell (@2000), Hammer Gauntlet Fury (@1000 polished), Roto Grip Idol (@2000), Roto Grip MVP (@1500 polished), Hammer Cherry Vibe (@1500 polished), Hammer Black Widow Urethane (@1000), Jet Blackbird

  5. #5
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    The short answer is to buy the ball with the specifications you want...not drill to accomplish it (i.e. what everyone else is saying.)

    The LONG answer is...it depends HOW MANY balls you have in your arsenal and HOW you USE your arsenal.

    For example, lets say you have 3 bowling balls that you take with you:

    1) You can use these 3 balls as a progression.
    2) You can specify each ball for a certain house/condition.
    3) You can specify each ball for a certain part of a lane (line) you want to play.

    Regardless of how you use your arsenal...the goal should be to have 3 different balls (given the 3-ball scenario).

    IDEALLY, you would purchase 3 balls with the exact specs you are looking for. If you are loyal to one brand...and have no monetary/budgetary restrictions...this can be done fairly easily. Go to your local pro shop...say I would like a Hammer Statement Solid, Hybrid, and Pearl. Then, depending on your approach (1-3 above), you could decided on a drilling strategy that optimizes the difference between them. Simpler...better...but costly. $525 in new balls and another $175 in drilling...and thats for mid-level Hammer Statements...could add another $150 for higher level stuff or more expensive brands.

    Where things get more complicated is when you are dealing with more than one brand and/or money is a factor. Balls from different manufacturers....made at different times (1 year ago...3 years ago...5 years ago...)...don't compare as well because the coverstock chemistry is different. Using the standard specs...aren't gonna tell you the whole story. I'm going to illustrate this dilemma using my previous 3 arsenals as case studies...because I deal with this issue a LOT...as I tend to pick up balls here and there...then I have to assemble an imperfect arsenal at a later date. This should give you a good idea of how to do that and also how difficult it can be:

    Assumptions: I use a "progression approach"...4 ball arsenal.

    Case Study #1: Arsenal #3

    Ball #1: Radical Reax Pearl
    Ball #2: Ebonite Innovate
    Ball #3: Hammer Scandal Pearl
    Ball #4: Track 300A

    This was not an "ideal" arsenal. All 4 balls had pearl coverstocks and Balls 1-3 had 2.49 RGs. So, using RGs to separate them wasn't an option. So, I had to use a combination of differential and PerfectScale. PerfectScale is a "tool"...that sort of summarizes ball strength based on factors that don't have numbers. For example, the Track 300A and Ebonite Innovate were very old balls...older means lesser reactivity from the coverstock. The Scandal Pearl was a new release.

    The "issue" was the Innovate. With it being SO much older...much lower differential and PerfectScale rating...would it still fit as a Ball #2 in my progression? Especially with the Reax and Scandal Pearl being so strong in comparison? So, the strategy was to drill the Innovate pin down...and the Reax/Scandal Pearl pin up. This would adjust/tweek/optimize the difference between them.

    Case Study #2: Arsenal #4

    Ball #1: DV8 Thug Life
    Ball #2: Ebonite Warning Sign
    Ball #3: Hammer Scandal Pearl
    Ball #4: Track 300A

    This arsenal I only switched out the first two balls...so it was very similar. And, the balls that were switched in were very similar to the ones they replaced. Older Ebonite for older Ebonite...More recent Brunswick brand (DV8) for more recent Brunswick brand (Radical)...same RGs...very similar PerfectScale and differentials. So, the drilling strategy stayed the same. Pin up on the Thug Life, pin down on the Warning Sign. In addition, I had to make some surface adjustments...because the OOB surface on the Thug Life wasn't near aggressive enough to be the Ball #1 I needed...so I had to drop it down to a 1000 matte.

    Case Study #3: Arsenal #5

    Ball #1: Brunswick Aura Mystic
    Ball #2: DV8 Grudge Hybrid
    Ball #3: Brunswick Fortera Exile
    Ball #4: Brunswick Vintage Gold Rhino Pro

    This arsenal was all one brand...so that gave me some consistency in coverstock materials. But the age of the balls are quite different...meaning the coverstock strength is going to vary a bit. I had planned to use a 900 Global Special Ops as my ball #2...which would have been a better fit...but the Grudge Hybrid was older and I was worried it might crack if I didn't drill it soon. The problem is...the Grudge Hybrid is newer and has a slightly lower RG than the Aura Mystic...which as a slightly higher differential and PrefectScale...but is older.

    To make matters worse...the Fortera Exile has a much higher RG (2.512) than the Scandal Pearl (2.49) did...despite the slightly higher differential (0.050 vs. 0.047 respectively).

    AND...the Rhino Gold is a much stronger option than the Track 300A and much newer.

    So, I had to make sure the Mystic was drilled pin DOWN...and the Grudge Hybrid pin UP...and the Exile Pin DOWN...and the Rhino Gold pin UP....pretty much the opposite of the previous two arsenals where balls #2 and #4 were significantly older/weaker compared to balls #1 and #3. AND...despite the drilling...despite surface changes...I've ended up moving the Grudge Hybrid into the #1 spot and the Aura Mystic to #2...because drilling and surfacing just wasn't impactful enough to result in what I wanted. The Grudge Hybrid was just too strong compared to the Aura Mystic...despite the specs saying otherwise. Once I made the switch, then I had to use surface to try and optimize the difference...dropping the Grudge Hybrid down to 2000 matte and putting a 3500 finish on the Aura Mystic.

    I don't put much face in drilling layout stuff. I think you can optimize a ball's reaction...for sure...but I think that kinda stuff is generally for pro level players that have a very consistent release and a ball they absolutely love to throw...and they just need a couple different looks with that same ball. I've seen FAR too many bowlers put a whole bunch of energy into drilling layouts...then they go bowl and are missing their target by 7 boards and they can't figure out why the drill layouts aren't working.
    In Bag: (: .) Brunswick Aura Mystic; (: .) DV8 Grudge Hybrid; (: .) Brunswick Fortera Exile; (: .) Brunswick Vintage Gold Rhino Pro; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 177; Lifetime Average = 169;
    Ball Speed: 15.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 143

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  6. #6
    Bowling Guru Amyers's Avatar
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    In my opinion this is something lots of people get wrong including drillers. No drilling should ever be used to attempt to make a early breaking ball fit into a latter breaking place in the arsenal or vise versa. Drilling designed to promote later or earlier roll are designed for helping the ball fit the bill it was designed for even with your unique roll. Everyone is different my balls tend to start earlier and hook more than average so to help me get the performance the ball was designed for I typically will have the ball drilled to maximize my skid and roll portion. Others I know may not have much hand so they need a drilling that maximizes hook. It's the drillers job to know your game, help you select the ball that does what you need, and selects the drilling that works best for you.

    The biggest misconception I see is bowlers select the ball they want to use that may not fit their game and try and use a drilling to mask it. Drilling is 10% of the balls reaction. 10% doesn't make the ball perform with different mission just changes the characteristics.
    I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling forums and ball contest winner

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  7. #7

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    Keep in mind that all that the layout does is to determine how the core is positioned within the ball. While the Dual Angle gurus will tell you that you can make a ball do anything you want by choosing the correct layout, the problem is that the core and it's position within the ball deals with less than 50% of ball reaction. The cover material and the surface have a much larger impact. I have long advised bowlers to use one or two layouts exclusively in order to better understand what each bowling ball will do. Using a standard layout (or two) allows you to understand and anticipate your ball reaction based on the numbers of the core (known), the cover material (sometimes known, more often easily anticipated), and the surface (known but easily changed). Once you have accepted that there is no magic involved and you have settled on one or two layouts to use exclusively, buying new balls, and changing balls part way through a game become very easy propositions.

  8. #8
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    AMeyers response was kind of what I was looking for there. Different layouts are more to complement a ball rather than supplement, in a sense. I live my life by the KISS principle and and what Rob just said goes along with that. Keep to a couple of layouts and don't try to outsmart the ball. I think a big reason it has taken me almost 2 years to get back to where I was was because I come back to these high revvers and start thinking I have to have 450 RPMs or I can't compete and I got out of my comfort zone. I stepped back and went back to basics with a few minor tweaks and suddenly I'm 30 pins higher. Just kept it simple. I was just unsure why companies have 5 different layouts for each ball when you could just buy a different ball to accomplish what you are aiming for. I was just thinking that for my next ball maybe try a short pin layout or something different but will probably stick to what is working now.
    Arsenal "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin (at home on the shelf now)" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 17.5 MPH * High Game: 267 - High Series: 657
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

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