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Thread: USBC Sanctioning

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by classygranny View Post
    It's funny you say "Bowlers are more and more not wanting to follow the rules". I have a friend that bowled a summer league - not certified. No one followed any rules, there were a couple of fights over pin carry - ie; ball came out of gutter and got a corner pin, it counts - as it wasn't written in the league rules. Also, there was a guy that bowled right handed and picked up all his right side spares left handed - counted, because they hadn't put that in the rules. The league rules have to specifically address all of those issues - or attach themselves to the USBC rules or state which ones. It can be messy if the league officers aren't careful. If a league is going to use the USBC rules, it seems they should "pay" for that privilege and just certify the league.
    Yeah, it can be really messy. Most of the unsanctioned leagues here "claim" they are adopting the USBC Rule book as their governing rules. So the bowlers basically want the rules, but don't want to pay the sanctioning fee because they don't "get anything" out of it. Then, they don't want to follow the rules because it is an unsanctioned league. It makes my head hurt.

    We have other people who don't want to sanction because they claim it is too expensive. It comes out to about $0.58 per week (based on a 34 week fall league...or $0.38 per week if you bowl the entire year). If that is too expensive, then they shouldn't be bowling in 2-3 leagues per week...and then also buying drinks, food, 50-50 tickets, etc.

    On my sanctioned league this Summer, there were blatant rule violations. Balls coming out of the gutter and hitting pins but not adjusting the score, pin setter dropping pins and then not getting them set back up for the spare then taking full resulting score for the frame, using balls with balance holes, cleaning balls with ball cleaner while bowling (only isopropyl alcohol is allowed right now during competition). A whole variety of things.

    I put a lot of blame on the league officers for not enforcing the rules and for not creating an environment where people feel they can turn to them for rule enforcement. I also blame the bowling center somewhat for not encouraging rule enforcement for fear bowlers will get mad and not come back to the center.

    I got to see a really fun fight recently on a sanctioned league. Bowlers leaves split, but one pin slid and went out of range. Pinsetter knocked the pin down when clearing the deck for the spare. Someone on the other team says "OH! We will call and get the pin set back up." The bowler says "Absolutely not!! I need all the help I can get against your team and will throw for the spare as is!"...several four letter words were exchanged and the bowler "won" the argument...picked up the now single pin spare and took the spare for their score. All of this happened directly in front of the control counter at the center as well and no one said a word.

  2. #12
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    Most non-sanctioned leagues I've known people who bowl in are full of cheapskates that don't want to pay the extra $1-$2 a week to bowl in a sanctioned league.

    It's usually not an issue until:

    A) One of them bowls an honor score and realizes they don't get anything for it.

    B) The center they bowl at does something janky and they complain and realize the center stopped sanctioning leagues because the center didn't want to pay to upkeep their center to the standards necessary to pass any type of certification.

    C) Some players decide to use some non-sanctioned balls/equipment/whatever...and someone complains...then they find out those rules don't apply.

    D) They get their league winnings at the end of the year and realize the winnings aren't what they used to be because the $11/week league doesn't have near the prize fund as the $25/week league they used to be in but they never did the math.

    Once I see a center start to offer non-sanctioned leagues...that usually means the center is desperate...especially if it's harder to find a sanctioned league than a non-sanctioned one.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Most non-sanctioned leagues I've known people who bowl in are full of cheapskates that don't want to pay the extra $1-$2 a week to bowl in a sanctioned league.

    It's usually not an issue until:

    A) One of them bowls an honor score and realizes they don't get anything for it.

    B) The center they bowl at does something janky and they complain and realize the center stopped sanctioning leagues because the center didn't want to pay to upkeep their center to the standards necessary to pass any type of certification.

    C) Some players decide to use some non-sanctioned balls/equipment/whatever...and someone complains...then they find out those rules don't apply.

    D) They get their league winnings at the end of the year and realize the winnings aren't what they used to be because the $11/week league doesn't have near the prize fund as the $25/week league they used to be in but they never did the math.

    Once I see a center start to offer non-sanctioned leagues...that usually means the center is desperate...especially if it's harder to find a sanctioned league than a non-sanctioned one.
    Another favorite of mine is when the bowling center raises lineage and says "if you want the prize find to be the same as it was last year, you will need to raise your weekly league fees by $1 a week." The typical response is "NO WAY! I refuse to pay another $1 per week! It is already $17 per week, what more do you want us to pay?!?!?"

    Then, payout night comes 33 weeks later, and everyone is complaining how it wasn't as much as last year and if they had known they would have agreed to paying a little more.

  4. #14
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryster View Post
    Another favorite of mine is when the bowling center raises lineage and says "if you want the prize find to be the same as it was last year, you will need to raise your weekly league fees by $1 a week." The typical response is "NO WAY! I refuse to pay another $1 per week! It is already $17 per week, what more do you want us to pay?!?!?"

    Then, payout night comes 33 weeks later, and everyone is complaining how it wasn't as much as last year and if they had known they would have agreed to paying a little more.
    Yup. People are idiots.

    I joined an $11 league...my first league ever...didn't know any better. Didn't even know what sanctioning was. The league was literally CALLED "El Cheapo" and was designed to be cheap. Yet, at the end of the season, there were teams griping that they didn't get very much in their prize fund. It's like, C'MON! Really?!

    It's like when people complain about paying their $20 USBC annual dues. It's $20 per YEAR. An entire YEAR...for $20. Not $200. Not $20/month. Less than a dime a day. People probably leave more pennies at their coffee shop over the course of a year than they pay in USBC dues each year. I've been strapped for cash since 2017...and I've never once thought, "Geez...I'd join a league if it weren't for that dang $20 USBC membership."

    Instead...I got a team of ****heads that keep trying to get me to drink pitchers all night and buy shots and spend $35-45 on booze every night. Apparently, because they all struck in one frame and I didn't...and that happened twice so far...I have to buy them all shots. So...I guess I'm two rounds behind in that little game. I pay $20/week to bowl, lose $6/week in the card game, and now I gotta spend $$$ amount to fund their booze habit...yet I'm gonna gripe about $20/year to the USBC? Not likely.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 185; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Yup. People are idiots.

    I joined an $11 league...my first league ever...didn't know any better. Didn't even know what sanctioning was. The league was literally CALLED "El Cheapo" and was designed to be cheap. Yet, at the end of the season, there were teams griping that they didn't get very much in their prize fund. It's like, C'MON! Really?!

    It's like when people complain about paying their $20 USBC annual dues. It's $20 per YEAR. An entire YEAR...for $20. Not $200. Not $20/month. Less than a dime a day. People probably leave more pennies at their coffee shop over the course of a year than they pay in USBC dues each year. I've been strapped for cash since 2017...and I've never once thought, "Geez...I'd join a league if it weren't for that dang $20 USBC membership."

    Instead...I got a team of ****heads that keep trying to get me to drink pitchers all night and buy shots and spend $35-45 on booze every night. Apparently, because they all struck in one frame and I didn't...and that happened twice so far...I have to buy them all shots. So...I guess I'm two rounds behind in that little game. I pay $20/week to bowl, lose $6/week in the card game, and now I gotta spend $$$ amount to fund their booze habit...yet I'm gonna gripe about $20/year to the USBC? Not likely.
    Exactly! The same people that refuse to increase the weekly dues by $1/week are the same ones spending $30-$50 each week on drinks from the bar and food from the bowling center restaurant. That is an extra $1,000-$1,500 they are spending over the course of 33 weeks. I am sure some people budget for it as their weekly entertainment expense, but there are others that definitely don't.

    I don't get involved in card games, side pots, drinking games, nickel/dime/quarter kitties, or whatever else people come up with. Those types of things don't make it more fun for me and are not why I go bowling.

    We even had people complaining during the summer about having to get the balance/weight holes in their balls plugged to be able to use them. The bowling center pro shop was only charging $10/ball to plug the holes, yet people were moaning about how expensive it was. "I have 3 balls and that was $30 I had to pay! Bowling is getting too expensive! Oh, waitress, please bring me another bottle of beer!"

    The local association does their best to give people useful trinkets for accomplishments. People complain that the awards aren't good enough and they should be getting "better awards" for what they pay to sanction. Like you said, it comes down to the equivalent of a nickel a day. If they were getting patches, they would throw them out. If they were getting certificates or plaques, they would be tossed in the dumpster. Trophies end up in a box in the garage/basement/attic. At least with a microfiber towel, pen/stylus, keychain flashlight, pocket knife, or nail file, or something like that there is some functional use to it.

  6. #16

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    I think my point has been missed here. I'm not complaining about the $26 Sanction Fee (Nevada). I'm complaining about the fact that the USBC has done absolutely nothing to protect the integrity of the sport. They allowed reactive resin bowling balls. They allowed dynamic asymmetrical cores. They allowed 2-handed bowling. They stopped making any attempt to keep oil patterns under control. They've stopped local associations from doing yearly lane certifications, choosing instead to "handle it on a national level." Now they've stopped listing USBC Certified Coaches on their website, in fact coaches are no longer deemed Certified, we're USBC Trained.

    From the time that the USBC decided to abandon their headquarters in Wisconsin so that they could share a headquarters with the BPAA in Arlington, Texas, they have ceased to be of any use to the sport, except to protect and promote the profits of their coffee break buddies, the bowling proprietors.

    I wouldn't say a word about USBC Sanction fees if they did anything at all to deserve them!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    I think my point has been missed here. I'm not complaining about the $26 Sanction Fee (Nevada). I'm complaining about the fact that the USBC has done absolutely nothing to protect the integrity of the sport. They allowed reactive resin bowling balls. They allowed dynamic asymmetrical cores. They allowed 2-handed bowling. They stopped making any attempt to keep oil patterns under control. They've stopped local associations from doing yearly lane certifications, choosing instead to "handle it on a national level." Now they've stopped listing USBC Certified Coaches on their website, in fact coaches are no longer deemed Certified, we're USBC Trained.

    From the time that the USBC decided to abandon their headquarters in Wisconsin so that they could share a headquarters with the BPAA in Arlington, Texas, they have ceased to be of any use to the sport, except to protect and promote the profits of their coffee break buddies, the bowling proprietors.

    I wouldn't say a word about USBC Sanction fees if they did anything at all to deserve them!
    They have performed many studies surrounding equipment and equipment specifications. They set limits on RG, differential, CoR, coverstock absorption rates, pre and post drilling static weights. They may have not banned 2-handed bowling, but I am convinced the recent changes regarding weight/balance holes and finger hole use during ball delivery are a direct result of them working to keep 2-handed deliveries and no-thumb deliveries from having a dynamic advantage. As technology advances, so does the equipment. The USBC makes sure that the new equipment does not exceed a certain level to maintain some level of required skill. A bowler still has to find a line, hit their mark, and get the ball in to the pocket at the correct entry angle to carry.

    Would we be better off still using Manhattan Rubber balls, with lane oil applied by hand on real wood lanes, and still manually scoring using transparencies on overhead projectors? If that is how bowling still was today, it would have died a long time ago.

    The results of their studies, according to them, indicated that ball surface played a greater role in changing lane conditions than the actual lane condition itself. This is what prompted them to update the coverstock absorption rate standards and go to the dry towel only rule. This is also what prompted them to relax the lane condition standards at centers.

    Much of what they do is behind the scenes. The only time we see the results of what they do is when they make a rule or policy change.

    There are so many variances in lane surface going on these days around the country (synthetic, wood, half synthetic/half wood, new lanes, beat up lanes, not to mention different topography of lanes even in the same center) that it would be impossible to have any consistent standardization of lane conditions nationwide.

    The USBC Website still offers the ability to find a coach:
    https://webapps.bowl.com/USBCFindA/Home/Coach

    Personally, USBC Trained means more to me than having the word certifed in the designation. USBC Trained says to me that the coach was trained by the actual organization using a prescribed methodology. "Certified" is kind of a diluted title these days. People learn skills from numerous sources, and then go to a certification organization and get an official acknowledgement. At least the USBC is making an effort to control the concepts and training of their coaches and not just certifying anyone who happens to be able to pass the tests of the various levels (without at least reviewing USBC's materials first.)

    Many of the bowling proprietors in this area do not necessarily agree with what the USBC does or the rules and policies they implement. However, they realize that the USBC is the governing body for the sport and they are kind of stuck with them.

  8. #18
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    "the USBC has done absolutely nothing to protect the integrity of the sport."
    Given if that is true, The majority of USBC members (the players) are hardly blameless in this, as They have done little to nothing themselves to protect the integrity of the sport.

    They mostly just sit there and complain about the problems, Yet they don't want to be part of the solution, They expect someone else to do it and they expect someone else to pay for it.

    They don't go to association meetings and make their voices heard and try to change things, it's always "Well they probably won't listen so there's no reason to even try." so of course nothing gets done or really changes.

    I'm sure there are some players that might have good ideas for solutions, But unless they step up and put them forth and get others to join with them and attempt to make to change things, nothing will change.

    Another thing is when the USBC even remotely tries to make a change to address any of the problems, Nobody likes it. It's always "They did too much", "They did too little", " Why did they change that? that doesn't do anything.", "that hurts me, but not that guy that's not fair!' etc. etc.

    What are they too do?

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  9. #19

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    Ryster: Over 10 years of writing BTM articles, many of which dealt with bowling balls, I was intimately involved with the USBC ball motion studies. I was also a member of the Board of Directors of the SNUSBC. My Silver Level Certification was earned through attending actual in-person seminars, for which I paid thousands of dollars. I gained my Certification by passing tests, both written and video analysis at the end of each certification seminar. I will tell you that the USBC no longer acknowledges "Certified" coaches, nor do the still list coaches under the "find a" section of their website. I can only surmise that their buddies at the BPAA didn't like the idea of a bowler at a certain center calling a certified coach who works out of a different center.

    I admire the fact that you have developed a blind allegiance to the USBC, but, as I stated earlier, this organization has done very little to maintain the integrity of the game. Would bowling be better off using Manhattan rubber balls on wooden lanes? No. Would bowling be better off using urethane ball and plastic balls with symmetrical cores? You betcha! As a long-time certified coach, I would much rather see bowlers use their energy to learn how to roll and bowling ball, than trying to memorize the characteristics of the eight different bowling balls that they bring to league each week.

  10. #20

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    bowl1820: I was one of the ones that that always tried to stand up to the USBC and defend the bowlers. I went to Town Hall meetings and asked them, point blank, why they continued with the one ounce static weight limit when their own ball motion studies showed that static weights have less effect than ambient temperature on ball motion. I was told, "Probably because that's the way we've always done it."

    At one point, I discussed the USBC's lack of action regarding bowling balls with one of the top members of the Nevada State Association. He promised that he would join me in following up. The next thing I heard, one of the members of the National BofD's told him to back off... he would hand it himself. What a surprise, nothing happened!

    My criticism and lack of respect for the USBC does not come without efforts on my own part over the years to try and get them to support bowling. The fact of the matter is that the only thing that they seem willing to support is their own need to exist without serving any purpose that is not totally self-serving.

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