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Thread: Transition

  1. #1
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    Default Transition

    Well things are much different now. Since our summer league team wasn't very good I used it as practice for more rotation and different hand positions. Now that I have that in my arsenal it is one more thing to adjust to. So tonight I started at the 10 board with the Uppercut and more hand. That worked good for about 15 or so frames then it went away. Moved in a few boards but still coming in too high. Tried moving out to the 7 board with a flatter hand and still too much. Switched to the Glam and tried outside but struggled hitting the pocket. Hit high so move 1/2 board and hit light. Moved in to the 10 board and same thing. Moved in to about the 13 board and started tugging my shots. Moved back outside and flattened my hand and came in too high. Near the end of game 3 I was back to the Uppercut standing further right (lefty here) and targeting the 10 board but struggled with consistency. It seems like now that I'm getting more rotation I seem to be getting better at that but now it seems harder to stay behind the ball like I used to.

    The Glam isn't much different than my Black Widow Gold was but now I think I might need to start using my Rhino late in the night. I was the only lefty on our pair tonight and seems like I burned it up much quicker than I'm used to and even the Glam seems to be a little too much late. They are replacing the Glam under warranty (cracked around thumbhole) so next week should have the new Ignitor to replace it. Kind of hoping that ball is a little weaker than the Glam. But thinking I'll take the Rhino too. That ball has always rolled almost straight but now everything I have is hooking so much more that the Rhino might be good late in the night.

    I do wish I had moved further in tonight when I started to struggle. Last week I was targeting the 15 board and even a few times inside that. Tonight was a close game so I was reluctant to get too far outside my comfort zone. In fact habit and comfort wanted to get me back outside when I was struggling but I knew that wasn't working so I forced myself to stay a little more inside.

    So my question is this...do you guys typically change hand positions as part of transition adjustment or do you keep the same hand position and just move your line and/or ball down?

    I have to say, I had a little trouble relating to some of the talk in here because it seemed no matter what I did my shot looked the same almost all night. It seemed no matter what ball I used I could stand in the same place and target the same board and the ball would hit about the same spot unless it was an extreme ball change. Example is the Uppercut and Glam. They are close enough that I could stand in the same spot and target the same board and hit the pocket with both. Maybe the shape was slightly different. But now I need to move about 1.5 boards further in with the Uppercut. The other difference is when I tried moving right and targeting the 15 board my ball would go straight to the 4-7. Last week I was standing about 23 and targeting 12 at the arrows and was getting a nice arc to the pocket. A few months ago that would have been a 7 pin...lol. Even a couple I threw tonight went way outside by 3 or 4 boards and it came back to the pocket. I have also slowed my speed down quite a bit too, like maybe 2-2.5 MPH. I had been close to 17 MPH but tonight I think most of mine were low 15 and even a few 14's, although I did get a few up around 17 tonight.
    Last edited by boatman37; 09-09-2020 at 12:41 AM.
    Arsenal "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 16 MPH at the pins* High Game: 279 - High Series: 725
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  2. #2

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    It seems to me that you are becoming a victim of the magic marble syndrome... a ball change for every occasion. Look at this mathematically: if you have 4 bowling balls X 3 hand positions X 3 ball speeds X 3 lateral line adjustments = you have 108 possible combinations to try to find the right one for the night. Considering that there are only 12 frames per game X 3 games (36 frames), your odds of finding the right combination before the end of bowling are somewhere between slim and none!

    So to answer your question: 2 balls X 2 hand positions X 1 ball speed X 3 lateral adjustments = 12 frames to get it right. At least you'll have two good games with the possibility of three if you can find it fast enough.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    It seems to me that you are becoming a victim of the magic marble syndrome... a ball change for every occasion. Look at this mathematically: if you have 4 bowling balls X 3 hand positions X 3 ball speeds X 3 lateral line adjustments = you have 108 possible combinations to try to find the right one for the night. Considering that there are only 12 frames per game X 3 games (36 frames), your odds of finding the right combination before the end of bowling are somewhere between slim and none!

    So to answer your question: 2 balls X 2 hand positions X 1 ball speed X 3 lateral adjustments = 12 frames to get it right. At least you'll have two good games with the possibility of three if you can find it fast enough.
    And that was the problem I was running into. So many different things to try and not enough frames to get it right. I have only been using 2 balls for the past 2 weeks but seems there might not be enough difference between them. The Uppercut has been perfect to start the night but after about 14-15 frames I have to start moving but then it seems like my new spot only works 2 or 3 frames then it's gone. At that point even a flat hand is too much for that ball (at least so far in the 2 weeks I have been doing this). So I ball down to the Glam and that is where I have been having trouble. Should I start back to heavy hand? Outside? Inside? etc. Then last night the Glam was too much by the end of the night and I gave up on it and went back to the Uppercut and moved back inside. But I realized my speed had crept back up and my consistency as gone. I think it's more a matter of I just need some time to figure out a progression for me. And as for for more marbles, well wife is bowling with me now so be too hard to sneak a new one in the bag anymore...lol. So I will likely be using what I have for awhile.

    I think if I can figure out what I need for the end of game 3 then filling in the middle will be easier as long as I can figure out when to make the changes. Another thing I find myself thinking and I know it is a mental thing I need to get over and is absolutely wrong but when my first ball starts to go away I'm reluctant to change because I feel it's too early in the night and if I change too soon I won't have enough adjustment later on and I know that is the wrong mindset and not true.

    But I feel like I have turned a corner lately and this progression thing everyone talks about now make sense but I need to put it to paper now so to speak.
    Arsenal "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 16 MPH at the pins* High Game: 279 - High Series: 725
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post

    So my question is this...do you guys typically change hand positions as part of transition adjustment or do you keep the same hand position and just move your line and/or ball down?

    .
    I find the ball that works best during practice, and then stick with it all night and adjust line as needed. If the look/motion I have with that ball totally goes away, and I mean literally just totally changes personality, then I will switch to something different. It is rare, however, for that to happen unless I am bowling with someone who happens to be using my same exact line. Constantly changing balls has the potential to really get you into trouble which is why I use it as a "last resort".

    I bowl with someone who will put all 3 of his bowling balls on the rack to start the night. He will switch back and forth constantly, and then at one point will get 4-5 strikes in a row, and then switch balls again while on the streak. It drives us crazy! There is another guy on another team that does the same. At one point late last season, he bowled a 298 game and then immediately changed to a different ball to start the next game. He shot under 200 because he said he couldn't find the line that game...right after he shot 298. He had the line locked in and then for some reason decided to change balls and got totally confused.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryster View Post
    I find the ball that works best during practice, and then stick with it all night and adjust line as needed. If the look/motion I have with that ball totally goes away, and I mean literally just totally changes personality, then I will switch to something different. It is rare, however, for that to happen unless I am bowling with someone who happens to be using my same exact line. Constantly changing balls has the potential to really get you into trouble which is why I use it as a "last resort".

    I bowl with someone who will put all 3 of his bowling balls on the rack to start the night. He will switch back and forth constantly, and then at one point will get 4-5 strikes in a row, and then switch balls again while on the streak. It drives us crazy! There is another guy on another team that does the same. At one point late last season, he bowled a 298 game and then immediately changed to a different ball to start the next game. He shot under 200 because he said he couldn't find the line that game...right after he shot 298. He had the line locked in and then for some reason decided to change balls and got totally confused.
    Well I am sort of guilty of that. I get both balls out before we even start knowing in my head that I will be switching at some point. Maybe next week I will try just one ball all night and force moves until I am out of room. I'm also kind of guilty of having a 'favorite' ball that I am comfortable with and try to use it as much as I can and always reverting back to it when I can't figure anything else out. Right now that ball is the Uppercut, hence why when I struggled late last night I went back to it. Almost like a crutch or security blanket...lol
    Arsenal "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 16 MPH at the pins* High Game: 279 - High Series: 725
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Well I am sort of guilty of that. I get both balls out before we even start knowing in my head that I will be switching at some point. Maybe next week I will try just one ball all night and force moves until I am out of room. I'm also kind of guilty of having a 'favorite' ball that I am comfortable with and try to use it as much as I can and always reverting back to it when I can't figure anything else out. Right now that ball is the Uppercut, hence why when I struggled late last night I went back to it. Almost like a crutch or security blanket...lol
    Having a favorite ball you are comfortable with is actually good. That is your benchmark ball. Everyone should have a benchmark ball, and that is the ball you should throw first in practice. If you get it to the pocket during the first 2-3 throws in practice, that is good and that is the ball you stay with. If your benchmark is not hooking enough in practice, you go stronger and see what happens. If the benchmark is over hooking you ball down and see if you get lined up. If none of them work, which is highly unlikely, then you choose the one that is giving you the most consistent and workable motion and go with it.

    Once you choose, put the other balls back in the bag so they are not there as an instant crutch. I find that having them out of sight and back in the bag makes me less inclined to switch and work harder to make the right moves and good shots with my chosen ball.

    I carry 4 balls with me to league (3 "performance" balls, and my plastic spare ball.) I will sometimes go several straight weeks using the same benchmark ball exclusively. Then, there will be a night I use a different ball, and a teammate will say "did you get a new ball?" No, it is just a different ball I rarely need to use. Just because I have it, doesn't mean I have to use it every week. I carry it with me just in case.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryster View Post
    Having a favorite ball you are comfortable with is actually good. That is your benchmark ball. Everyone should have a benchmark ball, and that is the ball you should throw first in practice. If you get it to the pocket during the first 2-3 throws in practice, that is good and that is the ball you stay with. If your benchmark is not hooking enough in practice, you go stronger and see what happens. If the benchmark is over hooking you ball down and see if you get lined up. If none of them work, which is highly unlikely, then you choose the one that is giving you the most consistent and workable motion and go with it.

    Once you choose, put the other balls back in the bag so they are not there as an instant crutch. I find that having them out of sight and back in the bag makes me less inclined to switch and work harder to make the right moves and good shots with my chosen ball.

    I carry 4 balls with me to league (3 "performance" balls, and my plastic spare ball.) I will sometimes go several straight weeks using the same benchmark ball exclusively. Then, there will be a night I use a different ball, and a teammate will say "did you get a new ball?" No, it is just a different ball I rarely need to use. Just because I have it, doesn't mean I have to use it every week. I carry it with me just in case.
    Yeah I carry my Uppercut, Glam, Squatch and plastic ball in my main bag. I have another bag that I leave there that has my Conspiracy solid and Black Widow Gold in it but I haven't touched that bag in awhile. Then I have the Kingpin and Rhino here I leave at home. Thinking of putting the Rhino in the bag though and pulling the Squatch only because the Squatch is very similar to the other 2 in my bag. I haven't really used the Squatch since I got the Uppercut and it stays in the bag. The Rhino will give me an option if the lanes are really dry but that ball would likely hardly ever leave my bag.

    Should have the new Ignitor next week to replace the cracked Glam so will see where that fits but should be close to the Glam. If need be I could take a little surface off it but will see.

    I was actually pretty happy with what I had before the Uppercut and Glam but ended up lucking out and winning both of those balls. The Uppercut sat on the shelf in the shop for a couple of weeks before he drilled it because I wasn't sure what I was going to do with it because I really didn't need anything.

    I'm feeling the most confident I have in awhile even though my scores haven'y been great. Now I am starting to see what does what I just need to figure out when to do it. Seems like before my options were more limited so I resorted to a ball change. Now I can play the center of the lane if I need to. Kind of like I have the tools now but I need to learn how to use them...lol
    Arsenal "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 16 MPH at the pins* High Game: 279 - High Series: 725
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Yeah I carry my Uppercut, Glam, Squatch and plastic ball in my main bag. I have another bag that I leave there that has my Conspiracy solid and Black Widow Gold in it but I haven't touched that bag in awhile. Then I have the Kingpin and Rhino here I leave at home. Thinking of putting the Rhino in the bag though and pulling the Squatch only because the Squatch is very similar to the other 2 in my bag. I haven't really used the Squatch since I got the Uppercut and it stays in the bag. The Rhino will give me an option if the lanes are really dry but that ball would likely hardly ever leave my bag.

    Should have the new Ignitor next week to replace the cracked Glam so will see where that fits but should be close to the Glam. If need be I could take a little surface off it but will see.

    I was actually pretty happy with what I had before the Uppercut and Glam but ended up lucking out and winning both of those balls. The Uppercut sat on the shelf in the shop for a couple of weeks before he drilled it because I wasn't sure what I was going to do with it because I really didn't need anything.

    I'm feeling the most confident I have in awhile even though my scores haven'y been great. Now I am starting to see what does what I just need to figure out when to do it. Seems like before my options were more limited so I resorted to a ball change. Now I can play the center of the lane if I need to. Kind of like I have the tools now but I need to learn how to use them...lol
    The Igniter is a little lower RG and a little lower differential than the Glam, so it most likely will not flip quite as hard. The Igniter also doesn't have Dynamicore like the Glam, but not convinced of the total effectiveness of that kind of thing anyway. I would guess the Igniter will be just different enough to notice and probably more usable overall.

  9. #9

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    Boatman: One thing that I see as a theme throughout your posts is a belief that one week on one pair of lanes has anything at all to do with another week on another pair. They don't! At one point you mentioned balling down. Do you always ball down, or are there times when you have to ball up. I know I do. The more that you can get the idea that there is a formula out of your head, the faster you will improve.The very first article that I wrote for BTM way back in 2007 talked about the dangers of preconceptions in bowling. The only correct preconception before you start bowling is having no preconception at all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    Boatman: One thing that I see as a theme throughout your posts is a belief that one week on one pair of lanes has anything at all to do with another week on another pair. They don't! At one point you mentioned balling down. Do you always ball down, or are there times when you have to ball up. I know I do. The more that you can get the idea that there is a formula out of your head, the faster you will improve.The very first article that I wrote for BTM way back in 2007 talked about the dangers of preconceptions in bowling. The only correct preconception before you start bowling is having no preconception at all.
    And I think that has been part of my problem. I go in 'thinking' I need to start with A then go to B, etc. I have went in with a plan to start with one ball then switch to this ball, then to my 3rd ball if I need to. But now with having the ability to change hand positions it now has got to where I have too many decisions, which is why I started this thread. And now reading this starting to see that maybe I am changing balls too much instead of working with what I have. But I don't usually see much change from week to week in lane conditions. Maybe because I had been on the far outside where there was always next to no oil to start with or maybe because I'm just not seeing it for some reason. I'm curious if I start to see it or notice it more now that I'm playing more inside than I had? If you remember back several months I tried to avoid getting inside the 2nd arrow because I was inconsistent in there? Seems I have that under control now and I'm much more comfortable there and getting more comfortable even at the 15 board and can hit it pretty consistently now. Probably due to confidence and lower speed than anything else.

    As far as balling up? Not on purpose. And I say that because last night I was struggling so decided to go back to the stronger Uppercut that I started the night with. Not because I thought I needed a stronger ball but because my other one wasn't getting the job done and my best games have been with the Uppercut so it was more of a comfort thing. And it was working from around the 13 board (that was the furthest I got in all night) but I had one good shot then started missing my mark. And since it was such a tight game I was trying to be conservative and get what I could. We lost that game by 10 but won total by 5 so it was a tight night. Had I done that earlier in the night it might have been a different story.

    But I feel I have made more strides in the last 2 months than I have in the last 2 years. Maybe that COVID break did me some good as I was able to shake off some bad habits like the higher speeds and stubborness to try something outside my comfort zone. This was the first break I had since my return almost 3 years ago since I had been bowling summer leagues too.

    I think my next thing is to pick a ball in warm-ups that I am happy with and stick with it now that I have the ability (I think) to adjust to it. Maybe when my wife gets her new ball next week we will go get some practice in. She works with a girl that is a certified coach through Dick Ritger and she has been talking to her about her scores each week so maybe we can get her to go with us.
    Arsenal "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" "15# Hammer Black Widow Gold" "15# Brunswick Rhino Black Pearl" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 325 @ about 16 MPH at the pins* High Game: 279 - High Series: 725
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!
    I am a proud member of bowlingboards.com bowling forums

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