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Thread: How aggressively to adapt to house conditions

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji88 View Post
    I wish you would expand more here Rob. Are you saying stay with the same ball, moving to make it work, until you no longer can, then change balls? Sounds like you are advocating more moving, less ball changing
    I believe that is what Rob is saying.
    John

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Anderson View Post
    I believe that is what Rob is saying.
    Yeah I have found myself standing way right and throwing over the middle arrow later in the night. Did it tonight at practice. I used to never move past the 10 board but have been working on moving right (I'm a lefty)
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji88 View Post
    I wish you would expand more here Rob. Are you saying stay with the same ball, moving to make it work, until you no longer can, then change balls? Sounds like you are advocating more moving, less ball changing
    That's exactly what I'm saying. For me personally, as a rev-dominant senior bowler without a lot of ball speed, I normally bring three balls with me to league: a very weak, high RG, entry level ball drilled weak; a high RG ball with an aggressive cover, also drilled weak, and a plastic spare ball. Most days I start with the entry level ball, find a line that works, and move left until I have to go to the ball with the more aggressive cover in order to get it back. For other bowlers with more ball speed, I often see desperate attempts to adjust using ball changes based on misconceived ideas about what to expect from their "progression" that worked last week, but isn't working this week for the simple reason that lanes transition much, much faster than they have in the past based on topography and who else is bowling on the pair.

  4. #14
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    One difference I have noticed this year is last year we had 3 lefties on my team and usually at least 1 on the other team. One night we had 6 lefties. This year I'm the only lefty on my team and we might get 1 other on the other team so I don't usually have to adjust as much
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    One difference I have noticed this year is last year we had 3 lefties on my team and usually at least 1 on the other team. One night we had 6 lefties. This year I'm the only lefty on my team and we might get 1 other on the other team so I don't usually have to adjust as much
    When I joined my Thursday league as a floating sub about a third of the regular bowlers were left handed. Most teams had at least one lefty, and for every three person team with none there was one with two. Now I’m one of the regulars, and my team has one lefty, one righty who throws a back up ball and who tries for the 1-2 pocket. Counting righties who throw a back up on the left side of the lane about 25% of the league is playing the sinister side. True lefties are down to 15% of the league which is still at the upper range of the estimates for how many people are left handed. Between being a trios league and having allthese people playing the left side I barely know how to adjust for transition anymore.😉
    John

  6. #16
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    Ball #1: Radical Conspiracy 2000 matte. This ball rarely comes out and I would only use it for very wet lanes

    Ball #2: Brunswick Uppercut 3000 matte. This is my benchmark ball and I can usually get through 2 games and sometimes all 3 games with it

    Ball #3: Brunswick Igniter 3000 matte. Usually only use this in game 3 but it doesn't feel quite right in my hand and I don't get the rotation on it. I might swap this out with my Squatch (3000 matte). I like the Squatch but it is a little more aggressive than the Igniter. Might try 4000 on it to tame it down a little
    See, in this scenario, the key would be how to use surface to get one of those balls to deal with carry down in the end of Game 2 or in Game 3.

    Whether a bowler needs pearls or hybrids or solids...or uses polished stuff versus sanded...I mean, a LOT of that depends on ball speed and rev rate. But, one of the bigger mistakes I see (frustrations is probably a better term) with bowlers is when it gets late into that 2nd game or into that 3rd game...and suddenly they start leaving 10-pins...and they can't figure out why.

    They've moved left as the lands transitioned...they've balled down to adjust for the lanes breaking down...some have even balled up and moved way left or balled down and tried to move way right. Everyone has their own 'strategy'. But they get the same result. The ball can't turn if there is oil in that 6-8 board breakpoint area. The ball gets there (however the bowler decides to get it there)...and then the ball barely makes the turn...like tires on a road that has just a "little bit" of gravel on the surface.

    And they don't know 'why'. Carrydown shouldn't even be a 'thing' anymore. RobM has done studies...so has the USBC. New ball technologies all but eliminated that old problem. But it IS a thing. Centers don't always clean between oiling. Centers don't always do a good job oiling for leagues. A lot of league bowlers (in good leagues) are throwing plastic at spares. In bad leagues, bowlers are throwing plastic at just about everything! Urethane is back for crying out loud! And it doesn't take much oil in that 6-8 board spot to leave a 10-pin.

    Most bowlers don't carry a "skid/flip" ball in their bag...because honestly:

    1. If there isn't carry down...you wouldn't use it.
    2. Minus carry down...a skid/flip ball is kind've hard to throw/control. They tend to over-react and be 'jumpy'.

    So, watch your scores in Game 3. If you're seeing a lot of 10-pins...even though you've made your lateral moves...and you've made your ball changes...then you might be seeing carry down. And nothing in your current arsenal is going to fix it. You can change your line, you speed, your hand, your loft, your footwork, etc... But you still need that 6-8 board spot to make your ball turn. Unless you switch hands and throw left-handed (as if we could all be so lucky!)
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  7. #17
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    I have a DV8 Pitbull, which is basically the same as the Grudge. I don't even bother with the Pitbull these days...it is just too much for a house condition. It loses all of its energy in the front 2/3 of the lane and has nothing left when it reaches the pocket. I have used it in OOB finish as well as polished. It did better polished, but was still too much.

    I have had the most success on house shots recently just sticking with stronger pearls, or mid-level solids. I have a hybrid Brunswick Method in OOB finish, and even it is a little too much for a house shot.
    Yeah, it's unfortunate. I was really looking forward to trying the Grudge Hybrid. It was a 'newer' ball compared to a lot of the stuff I throw...so I thought it would give me some more options. But it doesn't allow me to open up the lanes...and it doesn't retain enough energy when the lanes are dry.

    I had success with it in a house where they put down a bit more oil...was able to use it most nights as the first ball out of my bag. But, in houses there that oil volume or pattern isn't there...the ball just doesn't match up.

    Since you feel the Grudge is "burning up some" why not try 500/3000 or 500/4000 with it to see if you can get some more pop on the backnd
    I think I'm gonna do something like that. Maybe bump it back to 4000. I hate to go more drastic than that....otherwise there's little separation between the Grudge Hybrid and the Aura Mystic...but maybe go 500/1000/4000 and see what that does. I'm a month away from an arsenal replacement anyways...so, I'm just playing around at this point.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  8. #18
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    I feel really bad after all of the articles I wrote between 2007 and 2017 talking about setting up ball progressions. Unfortunately, ball progressions no longer work. There have just been too many changes to the game: more aggressive covers, bowlers indiscriminately using urethane when they have no business using it, no USBC oiling regulations. Get the idea of ball progressions out of your head and work on getting comfortable with lateral moves; regardless of how far they take you.
    This is a topic RobM and I have debated/discussed at length in the past.

    In a nutshell, I actually sort of agree AND disagree with Rob's points. Rob did come up with some great articles on this topic. One, in particular, was using RG as a way to set up an arsenal. I believe that article is still very relevant today...even if Rob has lost faith in it. I also agree with him that much of the problems are the result of the issues he mentioned...like ball manufacturers marketing balls indiscriminately, bowlers having virtually zero spec knowledge, the emergence of urethane, the failure of the USBC to deal with oil pattern issues and 2-handed bowling, etc...

    That's exactly what I'm saying. For me personally, as a rev-dominant senior bowler without a lot of ball speed, I normally bring three balls with me to league: a very weak, high RG, entry level ball drilled weak; a high RG ball with an aggressive cover, also drilled weak, and a plastic spare ball. Most days I start with the entry level ball, find a line that works, and move left until I have to go to the ball with the more aggressive cover in order to get it back. For other bowlers with more ball speed, I often see desperate attempts to adjust using ball changes based on misconceived ideas about what to expect from their "progression" that worked last week, but isn't working this week for the simple reason that lanes transition much, much faster than they have in the past based on topography and who else is bowling on the pair.
    Where RobM and I 'disagree' (in practice more than in theory) is how the average bowler should absorb a bunker full of information...and then use that information to go bowl 3 games on a Tuesday night and have fun doing it.

    I prefer to have a 'plan' on how I'm going to attack the lanes. Like, a battle plan. That plan almost always works...but almost always needs constant adjustment. As the bowler, it's my job to execute and to recognize the results as signs of what I need to do next. If I can't make good shots...my plan doesn't matter. If I don't understand why I'm leaving what I'm leaving and what adjustments I need to make...my plan doesn't matter.

    Rob has adopted a more complex "plan-LESS" approach where he clears his mind of everything he has ever learned...and walks into practice as if the bowling center was going to behave drastically different on that Tuesday night than it did the previous 120 Tuesday nights...due to a series of random factors...many of which are outside of his control....such as environmental conditions. Void of pre-conceived notions...he spends roughly 7.5 minutes learning everything necessary to determine his appropriate ball choice and line choice.

    Now, I'm not mocking Rob. Everyone has their own way of approaching things. Rob is a WEALTH of information...and he may just be capable enough to be able to get everything he needs in 7.5 minutes to make amazing decisions...with no preconceived notions whatsoever. I can honestly say...sadly...I am not Rob. I've shown up with 5 bowling balls and no preconceived notions and tried took 5 shots in 7.5 minutes and learned essentially 2 things:

    1. I can only make 2 out of 5 good shots in practice.

    2. Only 3 other bowlers (of 9) throw the ball on my line and like me...but they all throw it 2-4mph slower.

    Sometimes, unfortunately, there's an optional #3 of "somebody farted on the approach". That doesn't provide helpful information...other than to hope it clears out before I'm up.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.5mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post

    So, watch your scores in Game 3. If you're seeing a lot of 10-pins...even though you've made your lateral moves...and you've made your ball changes...then you might be seeing carry down. And nothing in your current arsenal is going to fix it. You can change your line, you speed, your hand, your loft, your footwork, etc... But you still need that 6-8 board spot to make your ball turn. Unless you switch hands and throw left-handed (as if we could all be so lucky!)
    I think you are quoting Boatman who is left handed, so unless the other team is made up of all lefties, switching hands isn’t going to help.
    John

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Anderson View Post
    I think you are quoting Boatman who is left handed, so unless the other team is made up of all lefties, switching hands isn’t going to help.
    lol. yeah. and i don't leave that many 7's. last night i left 4 but typically i might leave 2 or 3 in a night. last night i left 4 7's and 4 6's. lanes were bad though. both teams struggled to get strikes even though most were hitting the pocket consistently. my wife was the only one on our team to hit her average and that was only 106. i think only maybe 2 or 3 guys on the other team hit theirs
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

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