Masks

[classygranny]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks? I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD. Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

[bowl1820]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks?

You could, it could basically be as part of a league dress code or just a rule.

I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD.

Yes 100% written approval.
5. After the league schedule begins, a change in the league rules, schedule and/or prize list can only be made with the written consent of every team captain or designated representative.

And I'd almost bet it would never pass.

Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

It's up to the league to enforce league rules not the house, The house enforces house rules.

Note if you make a mask rule you need to list the penalty for violating it too and follow through with consistently enforcing it (and be prepared for the possibility of losing players and teams.)

[classygranny]

Thanks Bowl! I knew I could count on you.

I know it won't pass...just looking for backup for all the ones that will whine about it.

[Ryster]

If a house quits mandating mask wearing before the league is complete, can the league vote to mandate masks? I assume it would be a rule change and require 100% written approval from the BOD. Although the GM is questioning whether we could because the house can't enforce it. Opinions. No time to ask USBC as this will be an issue in the morning.

Just saw that the AZ Governor has lifted the mask mandate in the state, and basically said that businesses can choose whether or not to mandate masks.

I would wager that most businesses (aside from personal care such as hair and nail salons) will also lift their mask mandates just to encourage more business and remove the burden on them to enforce the rule.

Mandating masks in leagues here in PA would never work. 98% of league bowlers haven't been wearing them even during the darkest periods of the pandemic. If such a rule were implemented, the leagues would literally fold.

What is prompting discussion of having of a league mask mandate? Are some league members requesting a vote on such a rule?

[Aslan]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

[J Anderson]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

What bugs me is when a business leaves the signs up but does nothing to enforce the rules.

[Ryster]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

But, outside of that...there's too much division on the issue and we're now at a point where nearly 1/3 of the country has been vaccinated.

Our state was one of the first to lift the state-wide mandate (which nobody really followed anyway)...and our bowling centers are still requiring masks in common areas. I stopped wearing mine when I bowl just because it fogs up my glasses and I got sick of constantly taking my glasses on and off. Plus, by the end of the night, the strap was hurting my ears. Not to mention, nobody on my team asked me to wear one nor did any opposing team. I'm not a jerk (contrary to certain opinions)...if a bowler on my team or on the other team asked me to wear one...I would. I mean, I'm fine putting my own health at risk...becuase I've looked at the data and I know my situation...but I'm not going to put someone else at risk if they are concerned. That being said, I'm not gonna wear a hijab the rest of my life. This has to end sometime.

It's gonna be up to private businesses. They have the authority to enforce their own rules. People can then choose to shop/dine based on those rules. I still wear a mask when I go in the gas station, bank, and grocery store...because they have signs saying I have to.

The general attitude around here is "if you don't feel safe, don't bowl!". People wouldn't rally around someone on a league asking for everyone to wear one. We had people on leagues encouraging bowlers and the bowling center to enforce masks at all times, and the pleas fell on deaf ears at all levels. Some of the people simply dropped off their leagues and have not been back since.

I wear my mask at all times while bowling because it feels like the right thing to do. And, cases in this area are on the rise again so there is that too.

[RobLV1]

I can't see, outside of a senior league in a liberal area of a liberal state...a mask mandate passing a league vote with 100% of team captains...."unless" you had a special circumstance like a very vulnerable bowler. Like, if you had a senior bowler with health conditions....someone who had been bowling in the league for quite awhile...and they made a passionate plea for everyone to wear a mask....I could see bowlers rallying together for that situation.

How about if THREE league bowlers from one center have died because idiot bowlers refuse to cover their mouths AND their noses?!?

[Aslan]

What bugs me is when a business leaves the signs up but does nothing to enforce the rules.

I think some centers are scared to take down signage due to legal risk. Easier to just leave it up and not enforce it to the point that it scares people off.

The general attitude around here is "if you don't feel safe, don't bowl!". People wouldn't rally around someone on a league asking for everyone to wear one.

Maybe. I don't know. I've bowled on leagues with guys in wheelchairs where they had wooden ramps you had to walk around and older guys that took forever to get to the foul line and back because they were in their 90s. Some of these fellas had been in the league for decades. If someone like that had a "legitimate" issue...bowlers would tend to rally around them.

We had people on leagues encouraging bowlers and the bowling center to enforce masks at all times, and the pleas fell on deaf ears at all levels....I wear my mask at all times while bowling because it feels like the right thing to do.

I think the problem is you need something more specific than "it's the right thing to do" or "numbers are on the rise". People respond better when they know the plea is based in a person's actual condition or when they know someone that recently suffered from Covid. It has to be personal to them or else it's just something that one group of people wants them to do that they don't want to do. And for every "fact" there are "alternative facts". For every position or opinion, an alternative position or opinion.

Thats why I brought up the "one person in the league" scenario. Getting 100% of managers to agree is nearly impossible because you're asking liberals that have been told daily that Covid is on the verge of killing them and they MUST wear a mask...no 2 masks...no 3 masks...to be around others who aren't wearing one. On the other hand, if you want a mask mandate in the league, you're asking a group of conservatives to wear masks...even though they may not have risk factors, or may already be immune or vaccinated, or may believe the masks aren't as effective, or may believe the pandemic not as dangerous to their demographic. The only "solution" is a compromise. But how do you compromise when the result of any compromise could potentially be a deadly virus infection...even if that likelihood is 0.00008%?

And, for each person a league loses for lax enforcement of mask rules...you could lose one for too much enforcement. The USBC has been battling that for YEARS! Every time they make a rule...they lose some bowlers. Every time they fail to make a rule...they lose some bowlers. There's just no pleasing everyone. We went though this with cigarette smoking (for those old enough to remember). Bowling centers, casinos, restaurants...they all were under pressure. Do they ban smoking and risk losing their smokers? Or do they tell the non-smokers, "too bad....deal with the potential lung cancer if you want to come here". It sounds silly 'now'...but it was not silly then. Entire leagues would move to houses where smoking was still allowed. Finally, states had to pass laws to ban smoking in public places to provide cover for businesses. Sound familiar (mask mandates)?

We got used to speed limits. We got used to wearing seatbelts in cars. We got used to non-smoking on airplanes and inside public buildings. Would we get used to wearing a mask whenever we are interacting with people...forever? As much as I hate it...probably. It would take 20-30 years of 'fighting'...but eventually we'd just 'comply'. Then, we'd look back at those days when people walked around with their faces uncovered and think, "wow! they were so uneducated! Imagine how many horrible respiratory diseases they could have avoided!" Just like looking back at people that used to smoke on airplanes and think, "really? on an airplane full of people!?"

[Aslan]

How about if THREE league bowlers from one center have died because idiot bowlers refuse to cover their mouths AND their noses?!?

I could see making that case even if it was one...I don't think you'd need THREE.

I mean, if you're in a league...especially a smaller, senior league...and you've had a Covid fatality....I gotta think that might be enough to change hearts and minds in that league. So yeah, I think a fatality (unfortunately) would be enough to get 100% of a league manager vote. I'm trying to think if it would be enough in the leagues I'm in or have been in recently....it kinda depends on the league. The larger the league, the harder it is to get to 100%...just mathematics.

But yeah, I think of the 3 most recent leagues I've been in...a Covid-related fatality would likely be enough to convince the league to agree and comply with a league mask mandate. Granted, thats a guess and I'd like to think of that as a textbook definition of "worst case scenario".