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Thread: Transition & Adjustments

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    It really doesn't matter how new the lanes are. The panels are only about 3/8" thick. They are attached to wooden frames. Change humidity or temperature, and that wood changes. In today's bowling, topography is ALWAYS something to consider. If the lanes are the same, crack open a Bud and celebrate! LOL
    I sort of like when there’s a significant difference between the two lanes. I have a harder time stringing strikes when the difference is subtle.
    John

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    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Rob about the 'should' or 'ideal'. As I've stated many, many times before...usually where Rob and I diverge is in the practical application of ideas...not the hypothetical.

    In an ideal world, I'd never use a progression...I'd never limit myself to lateral moves and ball changes and vertical targeting changes. And I'd try 20 different balls in practice, 3 different lines, 3 different speeds, 3 different types of approaches, and 3 different hand positions. No doubt. And for anyone that doesn't think age and topography play at least a small part...they've never bowled in an older house, or on wood lanes, or on a split house with lanes on opposite sides (versus lanes all along one wall).

    BUT...how do we apply the ideal to the practical? How do we decide how to start league play when we have two shots on each lane prior to starting league play? How do we put an arsenal together when we are limited to 2-5 balls per year or per 2 years? Especially when some of us can't even afford to adjust the surface on them more than 2-3 times per year? How does the average bowler...that can barely hit a 4-6 board target at the arrows consistently while staying in time...change their footwork, speed, wrist position...all while staying in time and maintaining that balanced position that is vital to delivering a good shot?

    And THEN...there's that pesky thing where...in order to figure out ANY of this...whether you need a ball change or axis tilt change or speed change, etc... you need to make a very good shot and see the result. So, if you miss your mark or your speed is off or your balance stinks or your ball choice is bad or you're playing the lanes wrong to begin with...then you probably don't have enough information to even know what you SHOULD do or WHY.
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  3. #13
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    To follow up on my last post, I guess you have to look at bowlers this way:

    You have a HUGE segment...lets say 45% that bowl for fun. NONE of what we've said...or what we ever say...matters to them. They care more about the color of the ball than even how it fits their hand. As long as it doesn't hurt their fingers...and it doesn't get stuck on their thumb when they try to throw it (badly)...they don't care. They are almost just as proud d of their career low 89 game as they are of their career high 160 game. The fact that we care...they think is hilarious and sad.

    The next biggest segment is the 30% (or so) of bowlers that "try", but aren't much better. They can't hit a 2-3 board target at the arrows. They have horrible form. They average 120-160...but what they score is more based on luck than anything else. Their main focus is drinking and having fun...scores are secondary. They don't want to get better...they don't really care. Bowling is just something to do in the fall/winter that gets them out of the house. They aren't "horrible"...and they "try" to score. They might have a fingertip drilling and actually get pointers from the pro shop about what ball to buy. But, they ain't putting together an arsenal or carrying spare balls or asking for advice. And if they DO ask for advice or get unsolicited advice...they likely won't follow it.

    Then you have the higher average "Old Timers"...about 18% of the game and falling. They've been around forever...they are dying off...and they'll regail you with stories of how they met Johnny Petraglia at a bar or they used to throw a rubber ball. And, many of them can still average in the 180s. They actually learned how to bowl the right way...and as long as the centers keep putting down a THS with the track the dominant place to strike...they will keep hammering that second arrow and hitting that pocket until they crack a hip, blow out their back, get arthritis in their wrist, or tear their rotator cuff. What they WON'T do...is change...or learn...or adapt. If the track dries up...they will switch balls and stay in the track. If that doesn't work...they will change balls again. They will NEVER listen to you, me, or even Johnny Petraglia. They have been playing this game too long to care what we have to say about anything.

    The next segment can be divided into two...I'll take the smaller group first: low skill/high knowledge...about 5% of bowlers. These are your "tacticians". Your "physicists". Your "Mo Pinels...minus the skill". They love talking bowling on the internet and talking about ball specs and ball motion and ball drilling...but they aren't very good bowlers. They lack the "skill". They try and they try and they try. And they are very coachable...they'll try anything and everything..and probably have...but they'll never be a contender because they just don't have "it".

    The other side of that coin is the high skill/low knowledge...about 10% of bowlers. These guys...usually guys...usually younger and physically gifted...can do amazing things with a bowling ball. But, they tend to be the opposite of the 5% listed above. They don't care about ball specs, drilling, lane conditions, blah, blah, blah. They throw the ball hard, they rev it up, it spins....it knocks pins down. Telling them they need to do things differently just makes them mad because, "who are you? They average 10, 20, 30 pins more than you!"

    And that leaves us the final 2%. The high skill/high knowledge bowler. The guys/gals who:

    1) Care.
    2) Want to bowl better.
    3) Are still young enough that they can/will learn.
    4) Have enough physical ability to take what they learn and apply it.
    5) Are not so physically gifted that they can't be taught.

    The shame of bowling (as a sport) is that those are the 2% of bowlers we are speaking to when we discuss humidity, topography, adjusting to lane conditions, ball layouts, ball specifications, etc...

    Take it from someone who spends his entire fall/winter season being mocked by his teammates for taking notes and changing balls after a strike (because you can tell it hit weak and won't strike the next time) and paying close attention to where I stand and target (laterally and vertically). Even in the highest level of leagues...98% of bowlers either know everything or don't care. And if they bowl badly...they either don't care...or the oil machine is to blame.

    rant over
    Last edited by Aslan; 06-24-2021 at 09:18 AM.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
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    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  4. #14
    Member Cdolcejr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    At your average, I would highly recommend going with a three ball arsenal, rather than two. The middle ball should be your benchmark ball; the one that you start with. From there, you can determine if you need to go weaker or stronger, depending on who else is bowling on the pair, the weather, and the topography of that particular pair of lanes. Starting with your strongest ball is a philosophy that goes all the way back to the seventies and eighties. Modern bowling has effectively squashed that notion.
    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    It really doesn't matter how new the lanes are. The panels are only about 3/8" thick. They are attached to wooden frames. Change humidity or temperature, and that wood changes. In today's bowling, topography is ALWAYS something to consider. If the lanes are the same, crack open a Bud and celebrate! LOL
    So right on cue, my way of thinking bit me in the butt. I struggled last night because the lanes were completely different than what I've seen over the first few weeks in league. The pattern was the same but the lanes started off hooking a lot, and then by the third game the carry down was making it so that my ball wouldn't even get back to the pocket. I was able to recover and shoot 609 after starting w/ a 165 game, but this just highlights the fact that my way of thinking about and approaching the game is flawed.

    With that said, I definitely see what you're saying with topography and realize this game is not/never will be an exact science. It's failing to accept this that has been my downfall. Going forward, I'm going to do what you said. I'm going to start warmups with my benchmark ball no matter what, see what happens and adjust from there. I have a ball in my bag that is stronger/earlier than my benchmark ball, and a another ball that is longer than the benchmark ball that I can switch to if the lanes require it on a given night. No more preconceived notions on how the lanes may or may not play. I just have to go in and expect the unexpected and then adjust accordingly throughout the night to try and maintain carry to the best of my ability.

  5. #15

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    At the risk of re-opening an old can of worms, I'll say it again, in a different way: playing for carry down is a fools errand! I have had tapes taken after league play on a part of the lane past the end of the pattern. While there are streaks of oil, none are more than 2 units of oil. As we saw not too long ago when the USBC was dictating a minimum of 3 units of oil from gutter to gutter, modern reactive balls do not "read" two units of oil, they just don't. While the pros throwing urethane balls on PBA patterns do create significant amounts of carry down that will affect ball reaction, league bowlers are just not accurate enough to build up readable carry down on one part of the lane. The best advice I can give any league bowler today is to NEVER move right (for a right hander) when the ball fails to come back. When this happens, it is either because of too much friction (burn), or negative topography that has been exposed by the removal of oil by reactive bowling balls. Those bowlers who are open-minded enough to follow this advice ALWAYS show a vast improvement in their games!

  6. #16
    Member Cdolcejr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    At the risk of re-opening an old can of worms, I'll say it again, in a different way: playing for carry down is a fools errand! I have had tapes taken after league play on a part of the lane past the end of the pattern. While there are streaks of oil, none are more than 2 units of oil. As we saw not too long ago when the USBC was dictating a minimum of 3 units of oil from gutter to gutter, modern reactive balls do not "read" two units of oil, they just don't. While the pros throwing urethane balls on PBA patterns do create significant amounts of carry down that will affect ball reaction, league bowlers are just not accurate enough to build up readable carry down on one part of the lane. The best advice I can give any league bowler today is to NEVER move right (for a right hander) when the ball fails to come back. When this happens, it is either because of too much friction (burn), or negative topography that has been exposed by the removal of oil by reactive bowling balls. Those bowlers who are open-minded enough to follow this advice ALWAYS show a vast improvement in their games!
    And I think that there-in lies my problem. It is misunderstanding on my part. I am mistaking the ball burning up for carrydown. Therefore, my adjustments to combat the transition have been opposite of what they should be. I think I have my mind wrapped around that concept so now I'll put it into action.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdolcejr View Post
    And I think that there-in lies my problem. It is misunderstanding on my part. I am mistaking the ball burning up for carrydown. Therefore, my adjustments to combat the transition have been opposite of what they should be. I think I have my mind wrapped around that concept so now I'll put it into action.
    If you can do that, I guarantee that it will help you to raise your average. Many, many long time bowlers just refuse to stop playing for carry down. I try to convince them once, then I just shrug my shoulders and figure that they are on their own. I guess that's what comes with getting old... trying to get people to relearn something that they think they already know is just not worth the effort!

  8. #18
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    I struggled to understand the 'carry-down' issue too until one day it was extreme and I could see the ball just stop skidding very early and roll straight. But then again I'm a visual learner so need to see something to understand it. That was when I started understanding the concept. It was like the ball died 2/3 of the way down. The hook stopped and it appeared to lose speed also. I'm still not an expert at spotting it but understand that it happens and why. I know now that if my ball starts out good then suddenly starts hitting light with no other changes then I either need to move into the oil or ball down
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