An Unfortunate Situation

[djp1080]

It seems that you all missed my point. I don't care about losing the points. I don't care that he broke the rules. I don't care about the absentee percentage. My question is this: Do you think that a bowler should quit because conditions are difficult or uncomfortable, or do you think that finding a way to overcome adversity that affects all the bowlers on the pair the same is a true test of a bowlers zeal for the game?

I've been bowling on conditions (burned or dry) all this summer season that I'd rather not be doing except that I'm bowing with a bunch of older guys who I enjoy playing with and they do, too. None of us had a double in the three games we played one week and another week three or four of us had 20 and 30 pins over average most games (some oil). If this fellow who couldn't contend with the sticky approaches could have done several things to aleviate the issue if others were able to handle them (sort of). If he had good shoes, perhaps changing the soles would have helped a bit. Borrowing a shoe brush might have worked. On the other hand, perhaps he thought he was going to injure himself due to the conditions, who knows?
If it were me, I would have tried my best and afterwards let the desk manager know how things were on the lanes.

[RobLV1]

I guess I have to explain that bowling is very different in Vegas. Bowling centers are in large casinos, owned by mega-corporations (except for South Point which is privately owned). There are no "desk managers." People who work the desk make very small salaries and are treated like mushrooms... kept in the dark and fed s***! To get the floors mopped, people have to be called from housekeeping whose priority are cleaning up the sticky candy from the floor of the movie theatre. If there is a problem, security is called from a different part of the building. There are no longer any night leagues where I bowl (Red Rock Lanes) as the "company" spent millions of dollars putting in a state of the art cosmic bowling system for which they can charge massive rates for open bowling. Leagues that are left during the day are given very low priority. With this being said, the center did nothing wrong to cause the sticky approaches. The simple fact of the matter is that Vegas is not set up to handle humidity since there rarely is any. When there is humidity around, every center in the valley has sticky approaches. Some are worse than others, mainly because of the centers position in the building... some are against outside walls, some are below ground level, and some are on the second floor. The point is that when you sign up to bowl a summer league in Vegas, you'd better expect to deal with stick approaches at some point. You don't whine and complain. You certainly don't quit. You learn to deal with it... whatever you have to do!

[Ryster]

We have similar conditions here in PA. Today it is going to be 80% humidity. The center I bowl at is good about running the A/C, however the humidity control is less than ideal. The humidity level in the center according to their digital thermostats is typically in the 60-70% range at any given time. If it is raining outside, forget about it. Stick city. We have wood approaches as well. You know it is bad when during Pro-Ams the PBA/PWBA professionals are constantly commenting on the sticky approaches and constantly checking their slide. The "veteran" bowlers at this house know what to expect and we deal with it. However, the hyper-sensitive bowlers pitch fits and go for the easy slide and baby powder. It is literally everywhere. My favorite is when someone dumps a pile of it under the ball return and then wipes their slide foot in it every time they go up to bowl. That's really classy.

I have seen people enter tournaments, get all set up, go to practice and then withdraw and demand their entry fee back due to the condition of the approaches. It happens. Just another aspect of bowling.

A bowler quitting mid-game for whatever reason is entirely their business. The only impact it has on me, or if the bowler is on my team, is if it is scored correctly. If they claim injury, and they are not actually injured, that is on them and karma will bite them in the butt. If they are quitting for the night because they just don't want to be there, then good on them for admitting it and getting out of our hair for the night.

[boomer]

Did anyone bring these approach conditions to the counter? If there was concern for injury then they could have possibly tried cleaning the approaches before bowling resumed. Possibly postponed that bowling night. I assume they are synthetic approaches not real wood?

Ours are real wood so it's a bit easier to deal with. We can simply take a damp mop and clean them which we do monthly. I actually did it yesterday. It doesn't take long to do and they take about 10-15 minutes to dry completely if done properly.
When I say damp mop I mean damp, if it's dropping it's too much. I don't this would work on synthetic but I'm sure they have some method.

By all means if the conditions were hazardous then the center should have took some action. If it's one guy complaining it's one thing but an entire league that's a different thing all together.

My local center does a similar thing - synthetic approaches, but they come through and clean before every league. They use an alcohol/water mix, I believe, and they leave our approaches very nice for every night.

[Phonetek]

I guess I have to explain that bowling is very different in Vegas. Bowling centers are in large casinos, owned by mega-corporations (except for South Point which is privately owned). There are no "desk managers." People who work the desk make very small salaries and are treated like mushrooms... kept in the dark and fed s***! To get the floors mopped, people have to be called from housekeeping whose priority are cleaning up the sticky candy from the floor of the movie theatre. If there is a problem, security is called from a different part of the building. There are no longer any night leagues where I bowl (Red Rock Lanes) as the "company" spent millions of dollars putting in a state of the art cosmic bowling system for which they can charge massive rates for open bowling. Leagues that are left during the day are given very low priority. With this being said, the center did nothing wrong to cause the sticky approaches. The simple fact of the matter is that Vegas is not set up to handle humidity since there rarely is any. When there is humidity around, every center in the valley has sticky approaches. Some are worse than others, mainly because of the centers position in the building... some are against outside walls, some are below ground level, and some are on the second floor. The point is that when you sign up to bowl a summer league in Vegas, you'd better expect to deal with stick approaches at some point. You don't whine and complain. You certainly don't quit. You learn to deal with it... whatever you have to do!

Ah yes, makes sense. The bowling alleys are treated like yet another attraction. I lived out there in the mid 90's. 30% humidity was high then. Believe it or not, it's caused by all those water attractions, people with actual grass watering and such. It is a dessert and there isn't much naturally occurring water out there. Not all the humidity is caused by it, but all that stuff is a major contributing factor. Go 30 miles outside the valley and conditions are much different where is not populated.

The only places I remember with bowling centers were Showboat, Sam's town and Sante Fe. I'm sure there were more but I payed no attention. Unfortunately those years of my life were VERY different and bowling wasn't at all a part of it. I squandered them with the wrong woman, wrong career and wrong lifestyle. Hence the reason I got the hell out of there. I dumped the woman, started a new career and started behaving like a responsible adult. Had I stayed, by now I'd either be broke and homeless, in jail or dead right now.

It's unfortunate that the casinos treat it as you say. Vegas used to be THE PLACE back in the day for the best tournaments in the country. On the upside, I'm sure they don't worry about the things I do like, how I'm going to get new bowling pins, pin spotter parts and many other things I need to keep my center going. You've pretty much described the down sides very well. It's sad that you have to adapt to such extremes when there may be something that could be done if customer service was more important.

I guess if the ladies tour could bowl outside in Reno with sand on the lanes and approaches then humidity on the approaches is just another obstacle. A crappy one to say the least but I guess all you can do is suck it up and hope for dry sunny weather. I bet the people who plant vs slide like myself were loving it!

[Aslan]

If thats the case...as Rob describes it...then it creates a unique scenario and one that is hard to relate to.

So, let me phrase it in a different way and see if those that have already "voted" would see it differently:

Let's say you joined up for fall season in your usual league and 3 weeks in the center was sold to AMC/Bowlmor/LuckyStrike/Etc. As part of this sale, they were going to cut staff down to one counter person and were only going to oil lanes once per day...at random depending on when the one maintenance person (that they now share between several centers) shows up to do it. They are letting you know this because it will impact a few things and they want you to be aware so you can prepare:

1) The lane conditions will be very random on most days since, unless the maintenance person happened to show up just before your league...you will likely be bowling on house conditions which will mean each lane will play differently. This will require every bowler to acquire an "arsenal"...all 1-ball or even 2-ball bowlers will likely be at a huge disadvantage. It also is advised that all bowlers in the league seek out silver level coaches to help them learn to adapt to these conditions as they come across them.

2) Given the lack of staffing, approaches may be sticky or they may be slick. Nobody will clean them. Given this can lead to severe injury if the bowler doesn't adapt...all bowlers will need adjustable footwear. That means bowling shoes with interchangeable soles and heels. At a minimum, an Ebonite sock to slip over your bowling shoe if the lanes get sticky. "Powdering your shoes" is not permitted as this violates USBC rules.

See, I can understand if a center says, "we're not going to oil pre-league". I personally wouldn't bowl in that league. As stated in #1...bowling on house conditions is random and simultaneously penalizes skilled bowlers that have learned to adjust to standard conditions while also penalizing non-skilled bowlers who haven't learned to adjust to anything they see. I wish the game wasn't pattern dependent...I wish we could get oil patterns out of the game altogether...it'll never be a serious sport as long as oil patterns determine the outcome the way they do...but it is what it is. Some bowlers don't care and are just there to drink beer and have fun...so for those leagues...oil, don't oil...whatever.

But, for a center not to care for their approaches...thats a safety issue. Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now, a Vegas casino can afford to pay that lawsuit and I'm sure they have ironclad waivers in place to keep them safe. And, I realize the humidity happens so rarely that its not even worth making a fuss about. But how many bowlers in your league have interchangeable soles and heels? I'm in probably the 3rd best men's league in the state and I'd venture to guess < 15% of my league uses interchangeable heels/soles. Many of them have shoes capable of using interchangeable heels/soles but don't bother with it because their slide doesn't affect them much. Some people, it needs to be "just right"...others, they don't really care that much unless it's horribly off.

But, to say to a league that there may be times the approaches are so bad that you may be at risk of hurting yourselves...so you need to start buying new shoes and using interchangeable soles/heels or sliding socks...especially to a senior league? I mean, I'm trying to picture old ladies in those Ebonite sliding socks that have never worn those before and it's a terrifying picture!

The bottom line is, we've all bowled badly and been tempted to pack up and go home early. We've all blamed one thing or another...unfairly. The equipment, the scoring display, the speed of our drink service, the lane conditions, the weather, our teammates, the other team, our spouses, our kids, our work, our car, traffic, politics, and the list goes on. If we can imagine it, we can blame it for why we hit the pocket and left a 7-10. No matter how badly I bowl, I try to be a good sport and shake the other team's hands. Sometimes things are so bad I just pack up my stuff and leave...but I almost always feel bad about doing that. I've never gotten to the point of leaving early. I've come close a couple times...and that was usually because of things like this...the center didn't do their job and provide an atmosphere that was expected. Sure, I can adapt. I have training and multiple balls and interchangeable soles. But, the center's job was to provide a certain condition for all bowlers to bowl on and a reasonable and safe approach. If they, instead, provide random lane conditions and unsafe approaches...they have failed to do their job.

But, in this case...if the guy just left because he was bowling badly...I agree; bad form. Booo!
However, if the approaches were sticky to the point he felt unsafe...and the center couldn't (or even worse wouldn't) do anything to resolve it...he has every right to leave.

I understand Rob's frustration because there are FAR too many whiners in bowling that want to blame everybody but themselves when they don't strike. Believe me, I get that. I have an EPIC whiner on my team in my fall league to the point that I'm seriously considering leaving the team if it doesn't get better. And I can understand why Rob might want to force his opponents to bowl on conditions he knows puts them at a disadvantage. I get that. I just think we have to draw the line at potential for injury.

My opinion.

[Phonetek]

If thats the case...as Rob describes it...then it creates a unique scenario and one that is hard to relate to.

So, let me phrase it in a different way and see if those that have already "voted" would see it differently:

Let's say you joined up for fall season in your usual league and 3 weeks in the center was sold to AMC/Bowlmor/LuckyStrike/Etc. As part of this sale, they were going to cut staff down to one counter person and were only going to oil lanes once per day...at random depending on when the one maintenance person (that they now share between several centers) shows up to do it. They are letting you know this because it will impact a few things and they want you to be aware so you can prepare:

1) The lane conditions will be very random on most days since, unless the maintenance person happened to show up just before your league...you will likely be bowling on house conditions which will mean each lane will play differently. This will require every bowler to acquire an "arsenal"...all 1-ball or even 2-ball bowlers will likely be at a huge disadvantage. It also is advised that all bowlers in the league seek out silver level coaches to help them learn to adapt to these conditions as they come across them.

2) Given the lack of staffing, approaches may be sticky or they may be slick. Nobody will clean them. Given this can lead to severe injury if the bowler doesn't adapt...all bowlers will need adjustable footwear. That means bowling shoes with interchangeable soles and heels. At a minimum, an Ebonite sock to slip over your bowling shoe if the lanes get sticky. "Powdering your shoes" is not permitted as this violates USBC rules.

See, I can understand if a center says, "we're not going to oil pre-league". I personally wouldn't bowl in that league. As stated in #1...bowling on house conditions is random and simultaneously penalizes skilled bowlers that have learned to adjust to standard conditions while also penalizing non-skilled bowlers who haven't learned to adjust to anything they see. I wish the game wasn't pattern dependent...I wish we could get oil patterns out of the game altogether...it'll never be a serious sport as long as oil patterns determine the outcome the way they do...but it is what it is. Some bowlers don't care and are just there to drink beer and have fun...so for those leagues...oil, don't oil...whatever.

But, for a center not to care for their approaches...thats a safety issue. Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen. Now, a Vegas casino can afford to pay that lawsuit and I'm sure they have ironclad waivers in place to keep them safe. And, I realize the humidity happens so rarely that its not even worth making a fuss about. But how many bowlers in your league have interchangeable soles and heels? I'm in probably the 3rd best men's league in the state and I'd venture to guess < 15% of my league uses interchangeable heels/soles. Many of them have shoes capable of using interchangeable heels/soles but don't bother with it because their slide doesn't affect them much. Some people, it needs to be "just right"...others, they don't really care that much unless it's horribly off.

But, to say to a league that there may be times the approaches are so bad that you may be at risk of hurting yourselves...so you need to start buying new shoes and using interchangeable soles/heels or sliding socks...especially to a senior league? I mean, I'm trying to picture old ladies in those Ebonite sliding socks that have never worn those before and it's a terrifying picture!

The bottom line is, we've all bowled badly and been tempted to pack up and go home early. We've all blamed one thing or another...unfairly. The equipment, the scoring display, the speed of our drink service, the lane conditions, the weather, our teammates, the other team, our spouses, our kids, our work, our car, traffic, politics, and the list goes on. If we can imagine it, we can blame it for why we hit the pocket and left a 7-10. No matter how badly I bowl, I try to be a good sport and shake the other team's hands. Sometimes things are so bad I just pack up my stuff and leave...but I almost always feel bad about doing that. I've never gotten to the point of leaving early. I've come close a couple times...and that was usually because of things like this...the center didn't do their job and provide an atmosphere that was expected. Sure, I can adapt. I have training and multiple balls and interchangeable soles. But, the center's job was to provide a certain condition for all bowlers to bowl on and a reasonable and safe approach. If they, instead, provide random lane conditions and unsafe approaches...they have failed to do their job.

But, in this case...if the guy just left because he was bowling badly...I agree; bad form. Booo!
However, if the approaches were sticky to the point he felt unsafe...and the center couldn't (or even worse wouldn't) do anything to resolve it...he has every right to leave.

I understand Rob's frustration because there are FAR too many whiners in bowling that want to blame everybody but themselves when they don't strike. Believe me, I get that. I have an EPIC whiner on my team in my fall league to the point that I'm seriously considering leaving the team if it doesn't get better. And I can understand why Rob might want to force his opponents to bowl on conditions he knows puts them at a disadvantage. I get that. I just think we have to draw the line at potential for injury.

My opinion.

As a manager of a center I can tell you that if the center changed ownership after a season started, that the new owner would still be obligated to either abide by the league contacts that were already in place until they were renegotiated or face whatever the penalties are outlined in the contacts if they can't follow them. The contracts would be grandfathered in.

If they can't oil before league starts that day because they stupidly left it staffed with a singular incompetent boob that can't provide to the needs of the league then guess what... That night gets rescheduled. Or prior to bowling, that league votes on if they are going to bowl anyway and if the scores will count or not. At the very least, they would not be obligated to pay dues that night.

I know other centers don't operate the same as mine but I can say that EVERY staff member including myself oils the lanes. That is taught in the first week of training along with basic pin spotter repairs like pin jams, table jams, out of ranges and balls getting stuck. More complex repairs are left to assistant managers or above (usually me) or the mechanic when he's on duty.

Things like damp mopping of the approaches again since it's not done daily, fewer of the staff is taught this. However they all know how to grab a rag and a can of approach cleaner to remove foreign substances off an approach of the need should arise.

As far as a scenario like Rob's where it was a catastrophe caused by mother nature. You'd be hell bend on trying to prove negligence enough on the part of the establishment to win a lawsuit for injury. Especially since just about every scoring monitor in the US has a disclaimer on them that says something along the lines of "Beware that bowling has risk of injury blah blah blah" which must be checked prior to the lane powering on.

That said, the establishment SHOULD at least offer to try SOMETHING to remedy the situation if at all possible. A quick damp mopping of the approaches takes 15-20 minutes for 16 lanes. As long as the bowlers are going to be cordial and patient and not act like a bunch of a**hats I see don't see that to be unreasonable for anyone.

If that fails then again like mentioned earlier, the league votes if they want to postpone in hopes of better weather next time or proceed. The only scenario that's unacceptable is for everyone to do nothing and complain about it when people get hurt.

In Rob's case I do blame the establishment and the counter personnel. We all look out at the lanes from the counter. I initially asked Rob if anyone brought this to the counters attention. The more I thought about it, they shouldn't have to. It's part of our JOB to see that people are being safe and everything is operating status quo.

If those people were so oblivious from seeing everyone hoping, lunging and struggling to balance at the foul lines. Seeing bowlers whipping out the shoe brush, swapping soles and wiping their shoes then they themselves are idiots. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there is a situation they need to attend to in order to keep people from face planting on the arrows. I personally would fire them once I caught wind of the situation, I don't tolerate incompetent morons. Sadly we don't exactly get scholars applying for a job at a bowling alley. However they should at least have a modicum of sense and the ability to notice something obvious. If they can't then I don't need them.

Seriously Rob, I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap. At my center you wouldn't have to deal with these issues. I run a tight ship, moreso with leagues. The biggest issue you'd be dealing with at my center are the side boards. The last set we got were an inferior design and they all rapidly deteriorated, some worse than others. The result is, on some lanes there is poor pin action so you get punished more for light pocket hits. So if you're a guy who depends on messengers then I'd suggest you'd learn to bury it on it solid pocket hits until we get our new and extremely expensive replacements. Of which are back ordered because the materials aren't available. Other than that you'd be golden and worry free about doing unexpected front flips out on the lane.

[J Anderson]

Aslan, while I haven’t run into this exact scenario, the alley where I started bowling must have know for at least a year before they closed that they were about to be replaced by a small shopping center. I think that once they found out the lease wasn’t being renewed they stopped buying supplies and stopped oiling the lanes once they used up the oil on hand. They did however keep things clean right to the end. They would dust mop the approaches between leagues.

I think in your scenario where the new management is not going to properly maintain the approaches I would quit the league and find somewhere else to bowl.

By the way, even though I have interchangeable soles I almost always use the same number slide. My experience at a different center with stickier approaches was that the next step up was too much slide.

[RobLV1]

Again, the center did nothing wrong with regard to the approaches. You could clean them all day long and it wouldn't make any difference at all. Vegas is just not set up to deal with humidity; it just happens so rarely. Every center in town has the same problem to some degree when the humidity goes up. Depending on the positioning of the bowling center within the casino building, there's some variation but it's always there. Today we have over 70% humidity with a flash flood watch through mid nite tonight. League tomorrow morning is going to be all kinds of fun!

[boomer]

I'm in Riverside, the Inland Empire of California and we're dealing with the same. While we're not quite as dry as Vegas, we're still borderline desert (albeit with a TON of irrigation) so seeing a day of rain in late July is quite surprising (but pleasant. . . 72F plus a nice rain? I'll take it!) - it's going to be interesting bowling this evening. . .