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Thread: The Surfacing Dilemma

  1. #1
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Question The Surfacing Dilemma

    So, one of my teammates has been very insistent that I add surface to my bowling balls.

    Now, there's no real reason to do this and a lot of reasons not to. This teammate is a good bowler, but he doesn't know much about bowling ball technology, modern bowling, specifications, etc... BUT...

    1) He's not giving up on this...and has become all but threatening about it. I'm at the point where I almost would rather just surface all the balls to 800 Siaair just to get him to shut up.

    2) I've been struggling lately...mightily. Even when my leg/Achilles is feeling okay, I can't seem to find my form. I honestly don't want to continue bowling if I'm going to be a sub-180 bowler. So, even though I think this is largely nonsense...why not give it a try?

    3) The anchor throws an Incognito...sanded to 2000...and he essentially throws up the track. He doesn't have much more (or less) hand than I do...and I don't have much more speed than he does...so if he can roll for decent scores without the ball burning out...maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions?

    Thoughts?
    In Bag: (: .) DV8 Grudge Hybrid; (: .) Storm Optimus Solid; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Fortera Exile; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 179; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.81mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 171

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  2. #2

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    Simply ask him what is lacking in his life that makes the surface of YOUR bowling balls so important to him. There is nothing worse than unsolicited advice!

  3. #3
    High Roller Phonetek's Avatar
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    If you think it will help you then do it, if not then don’t. It’s not anyone’s business what you do or don’t do to your equipment as long as you’re doing it legally. Don’t let others dictate what you must do.

    Tell him if he wants to pay your weekly fees then you’ll do what he wants, if not… he can get out of your face! End of story.

  4. #4
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    It's really bothersome...because, if he was open to a conversation about it...I could point out that my struggles are due to:

    1) My inconsistencies related to my current injury where I'm struggling to figure out how much force I can put on my push away leg and how low I get on my slide knee. Both of those affect my balance and release and power in my shot and rev rate.

    2) Many of my struggles were the result of bad shots, bad timing, etc... I'd miss by 3-5 boards...I'd pull shots, etc... Then I shoot 50% at spares? Missing only 3 out of 9 of my corner pins! So, then I gotta deal with a teammate that is saying my problems would be solved if I just had a ball with surface on it?? It makes no sense.

    3) I already tried what he's asking me to try...and it DIDN'T WORK. Over the summer...when the majority of my team was taking the summer off...I was trying to work on my game and figure out a new arsenal. I had the Optimus Solid surfaced to 2000 Abralon and Yeah Baby Sinful (YBS) surfaced to 1000 Abralon. The Optimus Solid was NOT strong enough to move inside the oil line at 2000 and it was burning up and hitting weak if I tried to play the track. That led me to use the YBS up the track on fresh...which had such a HIGH RG (2.67)...that I had to sand it to 1000 just to get it to move at my ball speed...and when it finally moved...it also hit weak.

    4) I CAN'T surface my current arsenal the way he wants me to. The Grudge Hybrid is too strong of a ball. I used to use the Grudge Hybrid at 4000 and the ball was too strong. So, I decided to finish it with Royal Compound to keep it from burning up. And even with that finish, I still haven't been able to use it the last two nights because it is just too strong.

    But like I said. He's using a VERY strong Incognito...he has a similar release and speed...and he surfaces it to 2000...plays just inside the track...similar line to mine....so "maybe" I just surface the Grudge to 4000 and Optimus Solid to 2000 just to placate the teammate and get him off my back. I dunno.
    In Bag: (: .) DV8 Grudge Hybrid; (: .) Storm Optimus Solid; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Fortera Exile; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 179; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.81mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 171

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  5. #5
    High Roller Phonetek's Avatar
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    Worry less about his opinions and pay more attention to what you think. If you want to try that surface then do it and go throw some practice games. If you don’t like what you see then put the surface back where you had it. That way you can say you tried it and didn’t like it so he can shut up. Or don’t do anything and tell him to shut up anyway. This isn’t exactly a “dilemma” as you say.

  6. #6
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phonetek View Post
    This isn’t exactly a “dilemma” as you say.
    Up until now, thats kind've the approach I've taken. However, last night he made the comment, "next week he needs to either surface his bowling balls or I'm going to surface his (insert expletive for bum)".

    Now, this 'threat' isn't something I'm all that concerned with in terms of my safety. Despite my recent physical struggles, I'm younger and a bit bigger than this bowler. He's a bit more "bark" than "bite". However, the 'threat' did upset me...and I'm not easily upset. And when I got upset...and then my other teammate started playing his little games with his playing cards...thats when I kind've lost my cool and said something to the effect of, "my team is a bunch of (insert expletive for male genitalia)".

    Then, after the bowling was over...the person obsessed with my bowling ball surfaces more calmly said, "you really need to add some surface to your bowling balls." To which I replied, "Well, I gotta do something...because I can't keep bowling like this."

    So, while I totally agree with you that I'm under no obligation to ablige this guy and his "surfacing demands"...it's at the point where I either give in or have to face this week in and week out. If I bowl well, he doesn't have any ammunition. But, when I can't break 500...I'm an easy target.

    It's like there's blood in the water. I've felt it before. You start to struggle and her comes the folks with their advice and their opinions and "all you need to do is THIS....or you just need a different ball...or, have you tried THIS?" Everything from "drink more" to "relax" to "focus more" to "focus less". Everyone wants to help by giving you their magic cure. This time...it's surfacing my bowling balls.

    Which...for anyone that understands modern bowling ball reaction...makes no sense. I have a ball (the Grudge Hybrid)...that I'm throwing in practice up the 8-9 board, hitting the pocket consistently, and leaving obvious flat 10-pins. I have 3 options...but NO TIME left in practice to determine which option is best:

    1) Make a 1:2 move left with the Grudge Hybrid and try to get a little more in the oil to conserve some energy into the pocket.

    2) Make my vertical target out about 2 feet to try to reduce the time the ball is in contact with the lane surface...thus having the same effect as in #1...but allowing me to play the same line.

    3) Ball down to the Optimus Solid, move my vertical target in about 1-5 feet to adjust for the relative weakness in the Optimus Solid compared to the Grudge Hybrid, and throw on the same line.

    If I had more time in practice, I'd try to move inside 1:2 with the Grudge...and if I missed right and left a 2-pin combination (or something like that)...then I'd move back to the original line and feel confident that the Optimus Solid is the better ball to start with. But, you only have 7.5 minutes and there's 5 bowlers practicing.

    Myn point to the above example is...IF the dilemma is a ball burning up and not carrying a 10-pin...is having more surface on that ball going to HELP...or HURT that situation? The answer is: HURT. Now, 'perhaps'...adding surface would allow me to start further left...'perhaps'. But, I've already tried that this past summer...and I learned that you can't surface a ball into a stronger ball. The Optimus Solid is what it is. Adding a 2000 surface to it isn't going to make it some heavy oil monster that will allow a speed dominant bowler to play 5th arrow.
    In Bag: (: .) DV8 Grudge Hybrid; (: .) Storm Optimus Solid; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Fortera Exile; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 179; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.81mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 171

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  7. #7
    High Roller Phonetek's Avatar
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    Then my advise to you, is if you want to give in… give it a try. If you Bowl worse then say “This is what I get for listening to you! Happy now?” If it works then say “Thank you “. Or as I said before just keep doing what you doing and tell him/them to “Stick it!”

    You’re obviously more passive than I’ve come to be. It comes from many years of dealing with morons. I used to try to appease people. You’ll realize eventually that don’t get you anywhere and start telling people to stick it too. I can guarantee your situation wouldn’t have gone on for weeks if they tried that with me. LOL

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    I look at bowling as my fun time. If I don't have fun then why be there? I'd find a new team if there is that much friction (no pun intended...lol).

    That said, Maybe try adding surface to 1 ball that way if it doesn't work you have a fallback. Maybe he is right or maybe he thinks he is a know-it-all but no harm in giving it a try. If you are struggling that much then you have nothing to lose. Maybe his thought is to add surface and move inside?
    Losing doesn't help matters either. My team all gets along great but we aren't really having fun getting beat on every week. We all know it isn't one persons fault so no finger pointing.
    Arsenal "15# 900 Global Altered Reality" "15# Brunswick Uppercut" "15# Brunswick Igniter" "15# Hammer Raw Hammer Pearl" "15# Radical Squatch Pearl" "15# Radical Conspiracy" "15# Brunswick Kingpin" " "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
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  9. #9
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phonetek View Post
    I can guarantee your situation wouldn’t have gone on for weeks if they tried that with me. LOL
    And that kind've "ticks" me off as much as anything. He doesn't pull this nonsense with other bowlers. For all of last season and most of this season...I wasn't the worst average on the team. Yet, this guy didn't 'demand' anything of that player. That player...who makes ball changes 'willy nilly' and refuses to accept that he needs to change the bowling balls he throws now that his speed has fallen 3-5mph after an injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    Maybe he is right or maybe he thinks he is a know-it-all but no harm in giving it a try.
    Logically and based on the laws of physics...he can't be right. Surfacing a ball, thrown over friction, doesn't help it carry. If it does...then the entire bowling ball industry is wrong...and we have to re-think at least one of Newton's Laws of Motion.

    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    If you are struggling that much then you have nothing to lose. Maybe his thought is to add surface and move inside?
    Maybe. I don't know. I don't think he knows. He also gets upset when I make ball changes. Last time he got upset I challenged him by asking him directly, "Why do YOU FEEL I should continue to throw that ball when I just threw it...same line, hit my target, good release, and left an 8-pin due to deflection?" His response was to stare at me as if to respond, "I wasn't expecting you to actually make me defend my opinion." He then went onto tell me that my last shot wasn't a good shot and thats why I left the 8-pin....even though me...the bowler who threw it...knew I hit my mark...knew how it felt off my hand...knew I was balanced at the foul line, etc...

    In other words, he is a bowler that keeps throwing a ball when he is hitting the pocket and doesn't look for signs of deflection. Then, when he starts leaving 10-pins...he figures it must have been a "bad shot" or "these damn lanes". Since I tend to try and make a ball change based on what I'm seeing downlane...I'm wrong.

    What I'm a little unsure on is...let's say I appease him. Just because of the combination of my current struggles and wanting to shut him up.

    Right now I have:

    The Grudge Hybrid at: 800/1500/3000/Royal Compound

    and

    The Optimus Solid at: 800/2000/Step 2

    Now, I'm not a "surfacing expert". But, what I've seen online is that the Royal Compound is 1500 grit and the Step 2 is 320-1500. I've never really understood this...because surfacing to 1500 with a SiaAir pad looks a LOT different than finishing with compound. And, the reason this matters is...if I APPEASE this moron by just surfacing the Grudge to 3000 and Optimus to 2000...it seems like I'd be surfacing to a SMOOTHER surface than the compound???

    I'm almost tempted to surface both balls to 800 SiaAir...start up 8-9...and prove my point. Kind've like "what do I have to lose"...nothing. Well, what does the team have to lose? Nothing. If the anchor is going to bully people into doing stupid things because he doesn't know what he's taking about...then the consequence is even lower scores. Actually, it'll take pressure OFF me to bowl well...help my handicap...and I can just practice my spare shooting next week.

    Anybody with surfacing understand the difference between 1500 matte and 1500 with a compound??
    Last edited by Aslan; 11-25-2021 at 09:35 AM.
    In Bag: (: .) DV8 Grudge Hybrid; (: .) Storm Optimus Solid; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Fortera Exile; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 179; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 15.81mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 171

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  10. #10
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    For a teammate to make comments like that over a ball surface change is ridiculous. Personally, I wouldn't change anything. That just reinforces his behavior and makes it seem like he got his way.

    I would probably also give my 2 weeks notice, pay 2 weeks, and quit. No one should have to tolerate that at bowling. Losing the 2 weeks of dues would be well worth not having to deal with that garbage. Find another team on another night that doesn't act like that. It's just bowling and is supposed to be a diversion.

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