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Thread: Coaching! (Rob will love this...lol)

  1. #1
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    Default Coaching! (Rob will love this...lol)

    So a few weeks ago I went to a clinic ran by Kelly Kulick. Spent 3 hours, along with about 29 others, getting tips. Learned a little but mainly worked on my balance issue. It helped but I still need to work on it some more. That event was also a ball demo so I ordered a new Eternity Pi. There is a guy that bowls in my summer league and subs in my winter league. He just got his silver certification and had given me a few tips here and there. The night I went to pick up my new ball he was bowling league. When he was done he spent an hour working with me. He focused on getting me to stay behind the ball. I had tried it before but gave up quickly as it just didn't feel effective. After 15 minutes working with him I was able to hit the pocket. With the Pi being so early and strong I was having trouble with this. I did figure it out but the point is after 1 hour with him I was able to add a new dimension to my game. Still need to practice it more but happy that I am now able to use that if I need to. I tried to give him some $$$ but his deal is the first hour is free so after New Years I plan on hitting him up for more lessons.

    It wasn't that I was against coaching, just that there was only 1 guy around here and he was bronze level. Well now he is silver and even at bronze he would have been able to help me.
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  2. #2
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Glad that coaching helped. I think bowlers would be surprised at how much better they could bowl, no matter what stage of bowli9ng they are at, if they'd take some lessons.

    When I started getting regular coaching (every other week and once a month with a second pro), I went from averaging in the high 160s to high 170s. And, once I started to learn about spare conversion strategies, it went from the high 170s to 180s. The last piece was learning about ball mechanics. Add all that coaching together, and I went from a 160s inconsistent bowler...to a mid 190s average. Had I stuck with it, I have no doubt I could be averaging in the low 200s. Unfortunately, I stopped bowling for a year or so, and my job changed. Suddenly, not only was I in area with less coaching options (IA), but I didn't have the same disposable income and couldn't afford $200/month for lessons.

    When I moved from Iowa to Michigan, I suddenly had more disposable income...but I had to have a procedure on my Achilles that sidelined me for over a year. And, then I moved to Kansas where, not only are good coaches less available, but now I've developed a right knee issue (strain/sprain).

    I'm not sure if the coaches I had were bronze/silver/gold level. They were both PBA/PWBA/PBA50 level bowlers who had more than enough credentials. Most pro shop owners will get a bronze certification...just to give them some documentation so they can coach...so bronze generally doesn't mean much. Rob might know for sure, but I seem to remember Bronze being very easy to get, but Silver required a LOT more work...and Gold required so much effort that virtually nobody ever bothered with it, other than the USBC pros in Texas.

    If you have a Silver or Gold level coach in your area, I'd have high confidence that they can help your game. Same thing for professionals/former professionals. If you won PBA/PWBA/PBA50 major titles...even if you're not a great "teacher"...you have the skills to help bowlers get better. "Bronze" level....meh...maybe...but I don't know what the difference is between Bronze level and some high average bowler in your league giving you advice.

    As for folks here on BBoards...I took a couple informal lessons from both Rob and M.White...back when I first started out. They were both helpful. Rob really helped getting me to start "rolling" the ball versus "throwing" it. That was a big first step in the right direction.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.3mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  3. #3
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    Aslan, we live in a society where most of us depend on credentials as part of our decision making process. My own, as far as bowling goes, are level I ( passed both on line and in person ) Bronze, and Silver. Here are my insights into these levels of coaching:
    Level I: intended for teaching beginners. The in person class was much better than the on line in my opinion. Both take about the same amount of time and the cost was minimal.

    Bronze: If I recall correctly this is a one day seminar, might have been a day and a half. Taught by a Gold level coach possibly with some assistance from a local silver level one. The materials are geared toward taking lower average bowlers to the cusp between intermediate and advanced. Do not under value these coaches. At least one of the Bronze level coaches that I work along side could probably pass the Silver level exam without taking the seminar.

    Silver: definitely a two full day course and I think about twice the cost of the Bronze. Certainly the level of coaching you want if you have high aspirations or maybe if youíre just stuck at that high intermediate level. If all you ever do is bowl on typical house shots and limit yourself to 2-3 centers in your area you probably donít need to go out of your way to find a
    Silver coach

    Lastly, the success of coaching depends on how well you and your coach relate to each other and how much you can practice between coaching sessions. Some bowlers need a drill instructor, some need a more relaxed approach. Either way you need to be asking questions and taking notes. The coach should be giving you things to work on in between sessions.
    John

  4. #4
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    JAnderson- Agreed

    I took the Level 1 thing back when they were trying to certify a lot of youth coaches. It was interesting, but like you said, it was really designed for teaching bowlers who are early into their bowling 'career'. I don't think I ever followed through with the certification/background check as I didn't really see me using it.

    And yes, there are some good Bronze level coaches out there, it kinda depends on where the bowler is in their progression. When I was taking "lessons" from Bronze level coaches, I was very early in my bowling career. I needed to learn "the basics" that separate a mid-average league bowler from a open bowler that throws a house ball a few times a year. I think its 'harder' to differentiate between 'good' and 'bad' bronze level coaches...just like its hard to differentiate between advice you should/shouldn't take from high average league bowlers.

    Coaching definitely has a "teacher" aspect. So, getting a lesson from Sean Rash or Belmo is probably going to really help your game, because these are elite talents that have competed at the highest level...just like boatman's Kelly Kullick experience. However, there are also bowlers that never went on to the professional ranks who are just really good "teachers".

    The biggest difference I've seen (related to your drill seargent comment), is that...when getting lessons from a former or current pro...some of them will simply try to get you to do what THEY do...because they know that made them successful. The pros that also good 'teachers' will look at your game, age, injuries, etc... and they will try to cater their feedback to your capabilities and strengths...even if its different from what they'd tell another, very different bowler.

    I really miss regular coaching...and I hope to find a good coach in the coming year...just because of the huge benefit you get from it. If I'm making mistakes with my setup, approach, timing, speed...if I'm struggling with spare conversions, etc...; a coach (especially one you have an ongoing relationship with) can watch you take 1-3 shots and immediately recognize some bad habit or inconsistency. Your teammates "might" be able to recognize the same things...or they might not...or they might recommend something you shouldn't do just because they only know what works for them.

    I almost never offer advise...even though its hard not to in some cases. Before I can even offer what I feel is "good" advice, I need to understand all the variables. Making a good shot is the combination of multiple variables all coming together at once:

    - Ball selection
    - Accuracy
    - Ball Speed
    - Release

    Where do they start on the approach? Where do they end up (drift)? Is their drift consistent or inconsistent? What are they targeting? Did they hit their mark? Did they release the ball normally or did they get more or less hand into their last shot? What are the specifications of the ball they are using? What is their progression strategy (benchmark vs progression)? What do they look for that would trigger them to make a ball change? Etc...

    If I don't know the answers to those questions, I can really only tell them whether they were balanced at the foul line or not balanced at the foul line.

    The interesting/shocking thing is...even very high level amateur bowlers...they usually can't answer the above questions. They usually score well when their line is working because they are very consistent. As soon as the line breaks down, they go into the usual random ball change, move forward/backward on the approach, and gripe about the bowling center's oil machine.
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.3mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  5. #5

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    All-in-all, accurate information. A lot more information needed for Silver than Bronze, but a really talented Bronze Coach may be as much help to the 200 average bowler as a Silver Level Coach would be. Personally, I don't officially coach anymore, however I do try to help me teammates when I see really basic kinds of flaws or holes in their knowledge of the game. This is very frustrating since I moved from Las Vegas back to SoCal. Bowlers in the two league that I bowl every week are much less knowledgeable about the modern state of the game. Just last week, one of the highest average bowlers in the league still would not believe that the ball stopped hooking because of burn rather than carry down. This even after I pointed out that I beat him by over 50 pins the last game after I switched to an entry level, polished ball with a VERY weak layout! Some people just refuse to learn. Bartender?!?

  6. #6
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    Just came back from some practice. Practicing some of the stuff Kelly and Dennis showed me. My son and step-son went too. Dennis has been helping them too so they worked on some of their things. My son had a 3 step approach and Dennis told him he would really benefit from going to a 4 or 5 step just cause of timing so he practiced no step, 1 step and then a 4 step approach. Looks much better. Will see Tuesday if it helped.
    Lanes were fried. I started with the Eternity Pi but had to stand about 10 and 5 right targeting the 3rd arrow. Switched to the Xponent which I an normally throw straight up 10 but had to move my feet way right with it too. Was pretty much standing 25 and targeting 15 breaking about 10.
    Here is what I have been working on...1) staying behind the ball more instead of coming around. Struggled with this but Dennis has me on track and I'm pretty consistent with it now. 2) posting my shots. Kelly worked with me on this and I'm still struggling but know what to do, just have to apply it. 3) target the middle arrow for 7 pins. I had been standing 33 and targeting 16 but Kelly and Dennis both told me to move more right so today practiced standing 38 and targeting 20.
    Those are the 3 big things I need to work on.
    No idea what scores were today cause we were practicing 7's and 10's and not bowling under a specific name, just taking turns throwing
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    No idea what scores were today cause we were practicing 7's and 10's and not bowling under a specific name, just taking turns throwing
    Scores donít matter in practice, especially when youíre just working on one or two parts of the delivery. There are times I wich we could turn the monitors off when working with the kids.
    John

  8. #8
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    yeah thats specifically why i told them we aren't worrying about order. didn't want them focusing on scores. They are both still pretty new and only have about 6 months for the one and almost a year for the other
    Arsenal "15# Global Eternity Pi-45x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Xponent-60x4.5x40" "15# 900 Global Zen Soul-60x4.5x40" "15# Roto Grip Idol Helios-90 x 2.25 x 45" "15# 900 Global Altered Reality-50x3.625x30" "15# Brunswick Uppercut-80x3.625x35" "15# Brunswick Igniter-70x5.5x35" "15# Raw Hammer Pearl 45x5.75x40" "15# Brunswick T-Zone"
    Rev Rate about 270 @ about 15.5 MPH at the pins* High Game: 290 - High Series: 733. PAP: 5 1/8"x1" up; tilt 20*, rotation 75*. YTD highs - 290-733
    Oh, and LEFTY!!!

  9. #9
    Bowling God Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobLV1 View Post
    This is very frustrating since I moved from Las Vegas back to SoCal.
    Bowling in SoCal!!? Wow! Rob is in my old stomping grounds! You bowling in Anaheim Hills? Fullerton? Chino Hills? Anaheim? You're one of the few people actually moving TO California. Well, wherever you ended up, good luck! Might not find centers as nice as Red Rock...but, most leagues sweep in Vegas...so you'll have the opportunity to go back to Vegas. And with your knowledge of the Vegas centers...you'll have a decent advantage!
    In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Pyramid Force Pearl; (: .) Brunswick Rhino Gold; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
    USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 186; Lifetime Average = 171;
    Ball Speed: 14.3mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (689); Clean Games: 181

    Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!

  10. #10

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    I'm bowling at Concourse in Anaheim; two unsanctioned leagues with handicaps based on 100% of 220. There are no 200+ averages in either league. I'm averaging 180 on Tuesday, and I have the 3rd highest average. 188 is high in the league. This is one of the toughest shots I've ever seen!

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