Drilling layouts?

[extraacount]

Hey guys, its me again. I was looking around and trying to understand drilling layouts and how they can affect the ball's performance. I really dont understand a lot. For example: 6" Pin to PAP x 4.5" CG to PAP. and "Bowlers Axix Point" 4-1 over -3-4. What does all this mean?

PAP means Positive axis point
CG the surface of the ball where the companys logo is usually covered and its static balance is zero or etc...
Pin is the dot where it marks the top of the weight block

But what does all the Pin to PAP x ### mean?
If the Pin is on top of your fingers what does that do?
What if its below your fingers?
To the sides?

[Graaille]

Ok, here is some quick and dirty:

(symmetrical ball)
The distance between the pin and your PAP will determine how much the ball will flare. The distance is kind of a bell curve, with the most flare being at pin=3-3/8" distance from the PAP.

Pin position above or below the pin will determine how quickly the ball will transition into a roll -- pin at centerline of grip will roll much sooner than a ball with the pin 2" above the fingerholes.

Using these two bits of info, (and a healthy belief that the relationship of cg to pin doesn't matter - another can of worms I won't get into right now) you can say that if you want maximum flare on the ball - but want it to push further down the lane before it gets into a roll, you would put the pin 3-1/2" from your PAP, and above the fingers up to 1". If you want maximum flare, but want it to roll earlier - you'd keep the same distance from your PAP, but put the pin below the fingers up to 2".

These coordinates will give you a good idea about how the ball 'should' perform on the lanes. I cannot give a direct answer saying 'put the pin here and it'll do this', it's all relative to your personal PAP.

I will give this one provisio - drilling won't give magic hook - but it can take it away pretty quickly. The generic drillings I've seen on drillsheets are decent places to start for most people, it isn't until you're a strong enough bowler to maintain a constant release that different drillings will start to play in ball choice during a game.

[extraacount]

"I will give this one provisio - drilling won't give magic hook - but it can take it away pretty quickly. The generic drillings I've seen on drillsheets are decent places to start for most people, it isn't until you're a strong enough bowler to maintain a constant release that different drillings will start to play in ball choice during a game."

So your saying it doesn't matter until you have a consistant release, then after you can play around with drilling and get your own style off of it? Then you understand how drilling works and what you want the ball to do and thats when it comes in handy? For example i want a ball for heavy oil and i want it to flare earlier. Thats when understanding layouts come in handy?

Sorry might've repeated something twice there.

[Graaille]

Essentially. In my observations there are many people who want to find out their PAP immediately and do it on their spare ball - which is a good thought, but then they use a 'different' release with that spare ball than their strike ball. Then they take that info and engrave it in stone saying <echo on> "This is my PAP for now and forever!" <echo off>

What I'd do is if you truly want to know what your PAP is would be to use your normal strike ball, and throw a normal good shot for you. When the ball comes back, take bowlers tape and cut it in half lengthwise and use the edge to mark the first oil ring. Get up, wipe the ball down completely and throw it again, and see if the next oil ring matches where the first one does. If it's within a half centiemeter, go with it. Otherwise, cut another piece of tape, mark it w/a 2 or something, put it parallel to the oil ring for the 2nd throw, wipe the ball down, and fire off another shot. Chances are, the third shot will tell you which of the first two was more correct. If the third shot has the oil ring more than a half centimeter off from the first two - you're not being consistant enough with your delivery to declare <echo on> "This is my PAP for now and forever" <echo off>

If you're consistant within 3 shots of the first marking, then you've got a good baseline not only for your PAP, but then you can start looking at saying "When the pin is <here> relative to my PAP, then my ball reacts this way. You can examine the flare pattern of the oil rings, see how far they are apart, where they are on the ball to show how your axis tilt comes into play, and then if you get another identical ball (note the word identical meaning same make/model of ball with pin to cg length being close to the same), you can then drill that ball to do something different (pin up vs. pin down or 5" distance from pin to PAP vs. 3") and then you can start to see how the two balls compare for you down the lanes. That's about the only way to truly know how the pin placement on a ball will really affect reaction for you. And once you know how the ball will react for you as far as pin placement, then you can start thinking about an arsenal for light/medium/heavy oil and how you want the ball to react in each.

see also : http://www.bowlingboards.com/blog.php?b=23 for more thoughts about the PAP.

[mrbill]

That is some real good info thanks Graaille

I will be getting my Jigsaw Drilled this week, I'm going for the as robert/stormbowler says 4x4
That is the strongist layout it seems.
The reason I want that is the last semi big Turney I went to we bowled on some of the longist Oil I've ever seen.
Alot of bowlers where not prepaired and I was one of them = As seen On my ying and yang post video, All I could do is roll it almost stright, my 10 board house hook was gone down to 1 board of movment lol
Anyways good post here =)

[extraacount]

I think i understand now, thanks. Great information for when i get older and i bowl more consistantly.

[JAnderson]

Graaille gave a good overview of the basics, but understanding ball motion and layouts is fairly complicated because there are so many exceptions to the rule. Please note also that he specifically stated (and correctly so) the information was for symmetric core balls. Asymmetric core balls can be different, but the basics are the same.

When speaking about layouts, the industry's general consensus is that Pin-to-PAP (Positive Axis Point) distance has the largest effect on ball motion. After that, even the "experts" can't agree on what aspect of layout has the most effect. In my testing of 80+ modern balls, after Pin position, the rest is minor tweaking that creates only very slight differences in ball motion.

When speaking about layouts, the second*** (see disclaimer below for details) largest effect on ball motion seems to be location of the Mass Bias (MB) in relation to the track and/or Vertical Axis Line (VAL). The MB should not be confused with the center of gravity (CG). Balls with an asymmetric core have a marked MB. Balls with a symmetric core have a theoretical mass bias at a spot 6.75 inches away from the PIN on a line drawn through the CG***. The VAL is the imaginary line that runs through the PAP perpendicular to the line drawn between the grip center and PAP (both lines run through both the positive and negative axis points). Generally speaking putting the MB close to the track creates smoother ball reaction further (than the other MB locations) down the lane. Putting the MB halfway between the track and the VAL creates the most angular/aggressive ball reaction. Putting the MB on the VAL creates smoother ball reaction earlier (than the other MB locations) on the lane.

I have only one opinion on the CG location argument: in my testing, when moving the CG around, if I noticed a difference (sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't) I could not discern if it was the result of moving the CG that made the difference or if the corresponding move of MB made the difference (or both)!

Please remember that a ball "ruined" by a "bad" layout can be corrected with surface adjustments. If surface adjustments don't work, the ball can be fully plugged and re-drilled.



*** DISCLAIMER: Again, When speaking about layouts, from what I've read regarding various different tests including Throw-Bot and other ball motion studies and from what I've read on various bowling sites with knowledgeable posters and from talking to some industry experts, after pin position, the next biggest effect on ball motion is the relationship between the Mass bias and the bowler's track or vertical axis line (VAL). The way I understand it,before a ball is drilled, only asymmetric cores produce a true mass bias while symmetric core balls have a theoretical mass bias. Only balls with a asymmetric core have a marked mass bias (not to be confused with the center of gravity or CG). Once a ball is drilled - symmetric or asymmetric - the ball will have a mass bias. The mass bias represents the preferred spin axis (PSA).

Explaining all of the above in detail is another topic of conversation and requires a good understanding of Physics and the ability to think in four dimensions. It is not for everyone.

[mrbill]

Hey guys, its me again. I was looking around and trying to understand drilling layouts and how they can affect the ball's performance. I really dont understand a lot. For example: 6" Pin to PAP x 4.5" CG to PAP. and "Bowlers Axix Point" 4-1 over -3-4. What does all this mean?

PAP means Positive axis point
CG the surface of the ball where the companys logo is usually covered and its static balance is zero or etc...
Pin is the dot where it marks the top of the weight block

But what does all the Pin to PAP x ### mean?
If the Pin is on top of your fingers what does that do?
What if its below your fingers?
To the sides?

Heres a video site that I think you will like and learn alot from, I know I did..

http://www.talkbowling.com/talk-bowling-0004/
and I listen to this one at night
http://gobowlingshow.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=53

[JerseyJim]

But what does all the Pin to PAP x ### mean?
If the Pin is on top of your fingers what does that do?
What if its below your fingers?
To the sides?

If you can find a copy, REVOLUTIONS II by Chip Zielke is a great book. It explains the science behind ball drilling, and will give you most of the basics. You'll also find more advanced info at bowlingknowledge.com under TIPS, and the Morich bowling site which explains the DUAL ANGLE drilling system.