Onyx Vibe length and flip layout??

[jmcelliott]

I am looking for suggestions with a new onyx vibe I got yesterday.

Goal: Lots of length to get through fried heads with a nice backend flip.
Ball Core: Symmetric
Ball Pin Out: 4-5 inch (I usually always get 2-3 or 3-4. This is much longer than normal for me)
Right Handed
PAP - 4inch over by 1/4 inch up.
Speed: medium
Rev rate: between 350 and 400...

Suggestions on the longer pin?

[Strike Domination]

My best guess is drill it 70 x 5 x 40

What other ball(s) do you have? I'm guessing you want this to be weaker than whatever it(they) is(are).

[Stormed1]

The longer pin will not hurt at all. As a matter of fact it will allow you to use a p3 or p4 weight hole to increase the balls dynamic capabilities.To me the big question is how "flippy" you want it to be. If you want a drastic change of direction down lane decrease the angle to the VAL to 20 degrees. The 40 degree angle that was recomended above will give you a strong but more controlable change of direction. My own personal preferences are pin to pap of 4.5-5.5 inches depending on how much flare i want. A drill angle of 50-70 degrees for how soon i want the ball to enter the hook phase and a VAL angle of 40 degrees or greater depending on the ball and it's natural characteristics

[mrbill]

I am looking for suggestions with a new onyx vibe I got yesterday.

Goal: Lots of length to get through fried heads with a nice backend flip.
Ball Core: Symmetric
Ball Pin Out: 4-5 inch (I usually always get 2-3 or 3-4. This is much longer than normal for me)
Right Handed
PAP - 4inch over by 1/4 inch up.
Speed: medium
Rev rate: between 350 and 400...

Suggestions on the longer pin?

getting through the burnt fronts and mids are the Question of the ages.
I myself use a strong ball with a strong drill, then wax the crap out of it

[dougb]

Have you thought about pin over bridge with the cg kicked out to the right? Depending on how far you kick it out you'll probably need a balance hole.

The pin over should give you good length and the cg out a little flip, but my impression of all the Vibes (I used to have a Cherry) is it's more of a rolly piece. I'm no expert... Just my 2 cents.

[DanielMareina]

Have you thought about pin over bridge with the cg kicked out to the right? Depending on how far you kick it out you'll probably need a balance hole.

The pin over should give you good length and the cg out a little flip, but my impression of all the Vibes (I used to have a Cherry) is it's more of a rolly piece. I'm no expert... Just my 2 cents.

Please disregard this message above. That makes no sense. Static weight (the CG) does nothing for a ball flipping. It is only used to make the ball legal for the USBC's stupid rules. If you want a good solid backend reaction, I would say to use a 3 3/8" pin for the most flare potential and then have the pin above your fingers to give it length. I would keep the CG enough to the right that if you drew a line from the pin through the CG 6 3/4" long (this is about where the mass bias of a symetrical ball is) that it isn't on the left side of your thumbhole. This will probably need a weight hole in it, but throw it before putting the weight hole in. That way you can decide whether you want the ball to read sooner, or flare less, or stay the same. Good luck!

[dougb]

Please disregard this message above. That makes no sense. Static weight (the CG) does nothing for a ball flipping. It is only used to make the ball legal for the USBC's stupid rules. If you want a good solid backend reaction, I would say to use a 3 3/8" pin for the most flare potential and then have the pin above your fingers to give it length. I would keep the CG enough to the right that if you drew a line from the pin through the CG 6 3/4" long (this is about where the mass bias of a symetrical ball is) that it isn't on the left side of your thumbhole. This will probably need a weight hole in it, but throw it before putting the weight hole in. That way you can decide whether you want the ball to read sooner, or flare less, or stay the same. Good luck!

As you can tell from my post I'm by no means an expert, but I think what you suggested is what I was trying to describe. Not sure the difference in what I said to yours, so I'll post a pic of what I'm talking about and see if it's the same thing.



This ball does not have a weight hole. But I have another one with the CG kicked out farther and it does.

[Stormed1]

It still all depends on your PAP. the ball pictured above would be stacked leverage for one customer i drill for but would be at 6 inches for anothef. They would have 2 totally different reactions with the exact same layout.

[DanielMareina]

As you can tell from my post I'm by no means an expert, but I think what you suggested is what I was trying to describe. Not sure the difference in what I said to yours, so I'll post a pic of what I'm talking about and see if it's the same thing.
This ball does not have a weight hole. But I have another one with the CG kicked out farther and it does.

The problem was not with what you meant, but how you said it. I was saying that if you told a pro shop guy that you wanted the CG kicked out to create flip, he would be confused. I was saying that the key isn't where the pin is, but the length from the PAP. You were correct on having the pin above the fingers, but for most people, the layout you drew would be about a 4.5" or 5" pin. That won't cause the core to flip aggressively. It actually will smooth out the core's transition. I didn't mean to offend you, I was just explaining that side weight effects the ball almost not at all, and that the layout I put on there would be a better fit. I apologize that I offended you.

[dougb]

The problem was not with what you meant, but how you said it. I was saying that if you told a pro shop guy that you wanted the CG kicked out to create flip, he would be confused. I was saying that the key isn't where the pin is, but the length from the PAP. You were correct on having the pin above the fingers, but for most people, the layout you drew would be about a 4.5" or 5" pin. That won't cause the core to flip aggressively. It actually will smooth out the core's transition. I didn't mean to offend you, I was just explaining that side weight effects the ball almost not at all, and that the layout I put on there would be a better fit. I apologize that I offended you.

No problem. Count me as one of the large group of bowlers who does not know his PAP. Something I need to get from my driller so I can better engage in these sorts of discussions!