What do you think constitutes a fair handicap?

[bowl1820]

. How the hell does a team with the fewest total pins win more games than anyone else?

Because the other team didn't bowl good enough and lost.
A team with the lowest average in the league, could just bowl their average and win every point, every night of the league and win the league and still have the lowest pin count if the teams they bowled those nights bowled low and lost. just because they have low total pins doesn't mean they couldn't have won games.

[TheSheibs]

I believe you but look at your other post again.. The team that is in second place is in second instead of first because of my team. Going into last night, the first and second place teams were tied for first place. We actually had some handicap pins given to us and we were able to narrowly get out of it with three wins. But the wins where very close, first two by 25-27 pins and the third game that we lost was lost by 11 pins.

Something does sound strange with what you are describing but may I am just misinterpreting it. Is there any chance you can scan and post a standing sheet? Just use marker to redact the peoples names.

It is actually posted on leaguesecretary.com and can be accessed by anyone, with or without a login. Here is the link: http://www.leaguesecretary.com/aclas...standings.aspx

[TheSheibs]

What doesn't sound right is where he said "we were able to narrowly get out of it with three wins"

Then in the next sentence he say's they won 2 games and lost the third. "the third game that we lost was lost by 11 pins"

If you lose one game out of three, that means you won two games not three.

Sorry, we get a win or lose for the series totals as well. So there are 4 wins/loses per night. That is how we won three out of four. Sorry for the confusion.

[TheSheibs]

The first post today TheSheibs said they were given the pins and then in the later post said they gave the other team pins. Not quite sure how that works as you can't get and give at the same time.
I don't usually get many pins, if any and don't really care. What I don't understand is this; if you don't like handicap then just bowl in a scratch league. The girl I bowled against tonight had a 102 handicap. So what? As long as I hit my average the chances of getting beat are greatly reduced. And if my opponent can bowl over average and I can't, then they deserve to win.

To clearify. My team usually gives the team we are bowling against that night pins. However, with bowling against the team we did, which had a slightly higher team average then us, we were able to get 61 pins. Looking at the totals, those pins is what pushed us above the other teams scores to have the wins we did. Third game had my whole team kind of beat and we didn't do as well since we were all trying very hard to beat the team we bowled against since they pretty much have dominated the entire season. They also have one guy who is trying to get his average up to get his "pro" card. So just him alone makes that team tough to beat.

[TheSheibs]

Because the other team didn't bowl good enough and lost.
A team with the lowest average in the league, could just bowl their average and win every point, every night of the league and win the league and still have the lowest pin count if the teams they bowled those nights bowled low and lost. just because they have low total pins doesn't mean they couldn't have won games.

The main reason for this comment was because they went from 5 place to, after last night, first place. I looked at the past weeks results and every time they do not total over 700 except every once in a while. they also have only won a game by 100 pins over their opponent once. The rest of the time their wins have been by around 50 pins. How does a team consistently win by 50 pins ALMOST all the time? Especially with a wide range of averages across the league. I know that some nights a person is really on and the stars are aligned just right to allow them to have one hell of a game. But to even beat the team in last place by 50 pins. It makes me wonder what is going on with that team.


SORRY for the separate posts. I just wanted to make sure that I covered all the misunderstandings that people brought up, and that I replied to those who commented on my post.

[bowl1820]

How the hell does a team with the fewest total pins win more games than anyone else? Are they sandbagging? Could they have improved that much over the course of the season? I mean how the hell does a team with the fewest total pins, both scratch and handicap, end up in first place

Your league is a adult child league, with a 10 pin rule! Somebody was really paranoid about sandbagging there. And your figuring team handicap using 90% of the team difference.

In regard to team green they aren't sandbagging. You have a 10 pin drop and those guys averages are over their entering averages, that's not sandbagging.
The Roll another 1 team half their team is just bowling average and the other halfs averages are below the ten pin drop. that's why they lost . Not that little 15 handicap team green had.


Those league rules are something. The way the award rules read one person could conceivably win all of them and Subs can win league prizes but not have to pay into the prize fund.

[Hampe]

Seems kind of weird to have both an individual handicap AND a team handicap....

[bowl1820]

Seems kind of weird to have both an individual handicap AND a team handicap....

Not really on leagues that use the Team difference for handicap. You have to a way to figure the individual handicap awards like high game,series etc.

[Mike White]

Back when I first started in Adult leagues I bowled in a competitive Mens HDCP league that used 66 2/3 % HDCP.
The though was that the higher average bowler had earned his 33 1/3% advantage by putting in the time to become the higher average bowler.

I don't know if that would apply anymore. Take a 140 bowler with "cheap" equipment, put them up against their clone who has the resources to buy the "best" ball available.
They still throw the ball the same, but who is likely to average higher?

This is how bowling ball wars get started.

If you are fairly new to the game your living in post apocalyptic times and don't even know it.

[J Anderson]

Back when I first started in Adult leagues I bowled in a competitive Mens HDCP league that used 66 2/3 % HDCP.
The though was that the higher average bowler had earned his 33 1/3% advantage by putting in the time to become the higher average bowler.

I don't know if that would apply anymore. Take a 140 bowler with "cheap" equipment, put them up against their clone who has the resources to buy the "best" ball available.
They still throw the ball the same, but who is likely to average higher?

This is how bowling ball wars get started.

If you are fairly new to the game your living in post apocalyptic times and don't even know it.

When I started bowling in '75 the handicap in that league was 80% based on 200. When I became a team captain I found out that one of the league "rituals" was for Bob P. one of the other captains, to propose raising the handicap to 90%. It would always get voted down with only one vote in favor. Several years ago, awhile after Bob had passed away, this league raised the handicap to 90%. Last year we realized that the basis needed to be at least as much as the high average, and we changed to 100% of 210. Lowest average team finished first, highest ave.- fifth out of eight, second highest-third, and third highest- dead last. On the last night the first place team took all seven points. Had they lost all 7 they would have finished second.