Layout

[v33dubfox]

Both Layouts are almost the same. They both are short pins (about 3"-3 3/4") and both are at or just below the fingers. These layouts are meant to hook in the backend of the lane, and the short pin usually will cause a ball to unload all its stored energy at once, so it is more of a skid/flip layout. That layout isn't bad at all, but can be slightly less predictable, and with your lower revs, the ball may not actually flip soon enough to get good ball reaction. The good side of things is that when you plug and redrill the ball, it will not roll over the top of the old holes. Most pro shop guys will get it almost smooth, but it is hard to get it just right and it isn't the same surface as the original ball, so rolling over it isn't good. I will take a picture of the layout I propose and send it to you by tomorrow.

I am sorry but, there are some technical terms that are kind of unknown to me (I'm french... :P)

I just put it in bold in your text. So if someone can help me, it would be usefull hehe.

[Beech]

i have low revs aswell mabe a little more than you but i have a fast ball speed i can get it up to 20mph going at my 10 pin but i have been working on throwing my ball a lot slower.

as in answer to the bolded terms.
short pins : its basicly to my knowledge determines what drillings can be put on the ball, rico / Double thumb take bigger pins some take smaller.

hook in the backend of the lane: a lot of people play on Typical house shots (THS) which has a far amount of back end on it (atleast mine does) and majority of the time its the last 10-15 ft of the lane were the ball makes its move to the pocket.

cause a ball to unload all its stored energy at once: this just means the ball goes down the lane longer and hooks more in the backend as mentioned above.

flip soon enough: were the ball goes into the motion of rotating into moving in the backend.

[bowl1820]

Short Pins
A "Short Pin" (aka: "Pin In") is referring to the distance between the Pin and the CG (Center of Gravity) mark on a ball.

A "Short Pin" (aka: "Pin In") ball would be one with a max. pin to cg distance of about 3 inches.

A " Pin Out" ball would be one with a min. pin to cg distance of about 3 inches.
Longer pins will give you more options for laying out ball.

A "long pin" refers more to 2nd's/blem balls which have a pin more than 5 inches from the cg.

hook in the backend of the lane
Means the ball is going farther down the lanes before it starts hooking.

The length of a lane is divided into three areas, The Heads, Miidline and the Backend.

1. Heads - first fifteen to twenty feet
2. Midlane - twenty to forty feet
3. Backend - forty feet to pin deck

cause a ball to unload all its stored energy at once
Basically when a ball is skidding down the lane it has stored energy.Then when it finds some friction, it will start to use that energy (Unload) and drives the ball toward the pins. (Think of a car spinning its wheels on a wet road and then it hits a dry spot and takes off.)

skid/flip layout
Is a layout that lets a ball skid far down the lane and then hook with a sharp angle to the pocket.
As opposed to a layout that gives you more of a arc shaped path down the lane.

flip soon enough
Basically he's saying the ball needs to hook a little earlier on the lane (change direction towards the pins), more towards the midlane.

[DanielMareina]

When I say a short pin, it has nothing to do with the distance between the pin and the CG. I am referring to the distance between the pin and the bowler's axis point. The distance and relationship to the bowlers axis to the pin determines where and how much the ball will hook. A short pin, in this case would be a pin below 3 3/4" from the bowler's axis point.
The balls core and coverstock will cause the ball to hook. The coverstock of the ball causes hook due to traction, but the core does it through causing energy to build up and then release. Balls that have the energy release all at one time in the last 1/3 of the lane are known as skid/flip layouts. This means that the ball is skidding through the front 2/3 of the lane, and then hooks very suddenly in the backend.
As far as flipping soon enough, a ball's core sometimes can not start to hook soon enough to reach their full potential. That happens when the layout isn't good for the bowler, or if there is more oil on the lane than the ball is good for. I hope this clears it all up for you. I will send you the email with the layout that I proposed in just a few minutes.

[bowl1820]

When I say a short pin, it has nothing to do with the distance between the pin and the CG. I am referring to the distance between the pin and the bowler's axis point.

Sorry for any misunderstanding about the terminology use of Short Pin meaning Pin to CG (which I think is the more common usage) and DanielMareina's use of "short Pin" meaning "Pin to P.A.P."

Also from looking at the pictures of the balls they are "Pin In" balls, they have a very short pin to CG distance.

[DanielMareina]

It is a more common usage when you are talking to buyers of bowling balls, not drillers of bowling balls. So I apologize for the miscommunication. I try and speek the way I would want them to repeat the information to their pro shop guy.
You are correct that the pin to CG distances on his equipment are very short. Luckily that will keep him from having to put a counter weight hole in his equipment. A short pin to CG will allow him to have the pin below his fingers without having a giant weight hole well below his axis.

[bowl1820]

It is a more common usage when you are talking to buyers of bowling balls, not drillers of bowling balls.

It may also depend on local/region. Around the area here most drillers say short pin when referring to pin to cg. That happens a lot people from different areas using the same term meaning different things (or different term but referring to the same thing) that happens in the forums a lot.

another discussion
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Rep...8&CategoryID=5

A" short pin" also refers to a fallen pin that spins/rolls on the pindeck but doesnt knock over anything.

[v33dubfox]

Daniel: can I show the layout you draw here? So that I can get more "critics" about it.

[mikejones]

Judging off the info given, I would recommend a layout close to a 40* x 4" x 45*. This is a dual angle layout that should give you a very strong, yet controllable reaction out of this Wild Card.

[v33dubfox]

It would be 85 degree X 4.5" X 70 degrees