which way do you go!!

[MICHAEL]

Mike, I think you misunderstood something along the way. I don't remember a time on here that anybody said the opposite of your DVD. If the ball won't hook (and is thoroughly clean) you need more friction which means a rougher surface. If it hooks too much than less friction which is a smoother surface. The higher grits and polish are smoother. Also keep in mind, the more grits you hit as you work up to your final grit will provide a smoother looking ball. In another words, if you just went with gray pad then 4000 abralon it wouldn't appear as smooth as if you went gray, 500, 1000, 2000 then 4000.
Oil amounts are like trash in my opinion. One bowler's heavy oil lane is another bowler's dry lane. My treasure is your trash. Speed, rev rate, tilt and rotation all have an effect on the reaction, as you know. So if we both were on the same lane, using the same ball with the same surface, my reaction would or could be different than yours. That's where the fun is; matching the bowler, ball and lane conditions. When you get it right they think you're a genius. Miss by a little bit and you're a joke. Doing this without knowing the bowler and /or sometimes the lane conditions presents a real challenge.

I was told that it was hooking to soon, and that it needed to go through the oil, and to use 4000, and then polish. Which I did and it was even worse. I know they kept saying it needed more oil,,, at two different alleys, with fressh oil, still not much better then my plastic ball. Bill thats what I am talking about!
The chart says less hook lower numbers, I was told to go high! I think OIL IS THE big question here, and the degree of it!!
I will work this out through trial and error..... have faith in me men!!!/Women lol

[bowl1820]

Thanks for the great information. Do you remember when I was saying the Vivid went flat into the pocket? It was suggested that I go 4000, and then polish if that didn't work!
I think it was said that it was burning up before it got to the pocket?

Given the information at the time, yes it was suggested the that the ball may have been "burning up" and rolling out do to not enough oil, That is a more common occurrence in house's , than having too much oil. So smoothing and polishing is the first change to try, to see if it make's a difference. You got the problem resolved before we could try going the opposite way and making the surface rougher.

Jason and I use to laugh about if it was burning up,,,, it was not showing it in the way of revolutions, or movement!

Well given we can't actually see the balls reaction on the lane, it makes it difficult to diagnose a problem.

This will all sink in,,,, and I will figure it out, thanks for the information

[billf]

Fresh oil doesn't mean more oil. So your oil was put down a few hours after mine. Yours was a typical house pattern with 26ml. Mine was put out before yours but was a sport pattern with 50ml. Yours is "fresh" but still not more. When people were posting that it was hooking too soon, that means it did not get to complete the skid phase before going into the hook phase. Heavy oil balls, such as the Vivid, need that heavy oil to complete the skid phase otherwise they can and will enter the hook phase too early and roll flat through the pocket. There are ways to play around this condition but not everyone can do so.
I don't think it would matter what you did to your Vivid. If the coverstock was indeed bad you would probably never would have found a happy surface for it.

[MICHAEL]

I understand that Bill…. I know now that I had a problem with Vivid. Its problem was it didn’t show any hook,,, not early ,,, not late,,, behaved like a plastic ball. That’s what was confusing to me,,, why go slicker, with a high 4000, and polish, when it never hooked early, or late. I do understand the system now! I guess the advice I was getting was assumed to be that the vivid was hooking to early! That not being the case, going to more surface might have helped. (even though I believe it came out of the box 4000).
I know I have a lot to learn, and I am new to the sport, but believe it or not its staring to sink in! I will set my balls up in such a way as to be able to handle Heavy oil,,,, Medium heavy, and medium dry
I think the most important thing will be to keep records on EACH balls treatment, then make notes at the alley how it worked out.
Thanks for the help all of you…… Iceman

[billf]

Oh no, not a "Top Gun" reference for the next top gun bowling lol