PAP Identification Method (& Terminology)

[billf]

I gave up because I got bored. Feels as if this thread is taking just as long as the measuring process being proposed. I'm waiting to see what the advantage is suppose to actually be. So far it seems as though the ball was turned sideways and using more math to reinvent the wheel. No matter how many times you add 2 to a prime number, it's still a prime number. Whether inches or degrees are used, it's still linear math on a sphere.

If I had to wait this long on all my food, I would be THIN as I wouldn't bother to eat.

[bowl1820]

Why is it every time I pause, you assume I'm done and thats all there it to it. We're still making the cake, you need to wait on the frosting.

I'm sorry I'm making you mad by commenting on your posts.

About the vertical axis line, one end of that line is 4 3/4" down for some people, but the other end of that line is 6 3/4" from the grip center on a line that goes thru the fingers. And thats the same dimensions for everyone.

This make no sense

BTW how do you find the Vertical axis line for someone with X down and 0 over?

See post above

Also it's not "X down and 0 over" it would be "X over and O up or down(depending if the PAP is above or below the Midline)
The balls holes would be oriented like in the post above when getting the measurements off the ball.

I don't need three measurements to find the PAP. only 2. 1 distance, and one angle. The other angle measurement is useful later.

Yes you located the PAP with 1 distance, and one angle, But if you don't know what that 2nd angle is before you try to layout a ball. You won't be able to project the line from the PAP at the correct angle to locate the grip center.

So you would have to measure that 2nd angle also, when you do the other measurements. And to do that you would need to have the Vertical Axis Line. And if you have that you don't need your angle measurements in the first place. just use the regular measurements and save having ti do more steps.

To me each time you have a choice between two apparently equal options you should select the option that provides the most useful information.

Your method doesn't tell you anything the other method doesn't. What about the current why of doing it , does it not tell you?

Again wait until the cake is done cooking before you decide if it tastes bad.

The cake has failed to rise yet.

[GeorgiaStroker]

I'm glad all you Left brain types are there for us right minded people. We can take you a ball and say make it do this and you can. lol That frees us up to enjoy 70's sitcoms and beer.

[Mike White]

Let me rephrase the question...

If the PAP happens to be exactly on the midline, how do you determine the VAL?

[billf]

The same way you would if it was up or down from the midlane. The VAL still goes through the PAP at an angle determined by what ball reaction is desired.

[billf]

VAL angle is the angle through the PAP in correlation to the pin. So a 20 degree VAL doesn't care if the PAP is above or below the midline, nor would a 70 degree VAL angle.

[bowl1820]

Let me rephrase the question...

If the PAP happens to be exactly on the midline, how do you determine the VAL?

You still draw a line perpendicular from the point on the midline.

The vertical measurement is just zero example 4 3/4" across 0 up

[bowl1820]

The VAL is a line perpendicular to the midline that passes through the PAP.

VAL angle is the angle through the PAP in correlation to the pin. So a 20 degree VAL doesn't care if the PAP is above or below the midline, nor would a 70 degree VAL angle.

just to be clear:
The angle billf is talking about here is used later when doing the layout. And is not part of getting the PAP location measurements off a ball.

[billf]

The VAL is taken at the PAP in degrees from the pin to PAP line. It's not until after these measurements are completed do you measure back from the PAP to get the midline. The pin to PAP distance chosen (depending on reaction desired) would affect the relative position of the pin to the grips using the same PAP.

[bowl1820]

The VAL is taken at the PAP in degrees from the pin to PAP line. It's not until after these measurements are completed do you measure back from the PAP to get the midline. The pin to PAP distance chosen (depending on reaction desired) would affect the relative position of the pin to the grips using the same PAP.

Yes Billf your talking about how you put a layout on a ball. The Angle to VAL part of the Dual Angle Layout.

What we are talking about is measuring where the PAP is in the first place on a ball all ready drilled.
The Vertical Axis Line is always at a 90 degree angle to the Midline.