I guess what I'm trying to say is that the down and over method is like fingers on a chalk board for me.
Imagine simple graph paper with vertical lines, and instead of horizontal lines they were diagonal.
To me, down and over has diagonal lines.
And after all is said and done.
Your still going to need to use over X and up or down Y coordinates to locate the pap.
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the down and over method is like fingers on a chalk board for me.
Imagine simple graph paper with vertical lines, and instead of horizontal lines they were diagonal.
To me, down and over has diagonal lines.
That is all well and good but is it truly any more accurate or better than the current methods? Maybe trying it will be the only real way to tell.
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http://mikew1961.linkpc.net/images/BowlingTest.png
This is an image of the odd grid structure that down and over uses.
In this example the PAP is 4 3/4" down and 1" over.
Last edited by Mike White; 07-07-2012 at 07:17 PM.
What's odd about it? It's locating the PAP in relation to the grip in the simplest way.
The A highlighted line would be the current way of locating the PAP 4 3/4" Across and 1" UP measured from the grip center.
Now you talked about measuring the pap from the center of the fingers, The B&C lines in this image can't be used because they are not perpendicular to the center line of the grip.
Example:
If line A is 4 3/4" long, then line C is going to be shorter in that picture.
Last edited by bowl1820; 07-07-2012 at 09:34 PM.
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
Mike, at the beginning of this thread you said we should use the metric system due to being more accurate. Yes, the metric system is slightly more precise albeit using a grease pencil to mark the layout offsets any gains. However, I still don't see where you have incorporated the metric system anywhere in your calculations. Using "advanced" mathematical equations doesn't make it metric.
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Actually he didn't say use the metric system for the measurements.
He was just making a comparison, like why use the old way when there's a better one.The method of over X and up Y the way it's implemented to me is like sticking with the English method when clearly the metric system is better
Right handed Stroker, high track ,about 13 degree axis tilt. PAP is located 5 9/16” over 1 3/4” up.Speed ave. about 14 mph at the pins. Medium rev’s.High Game 300, High series 798
"Talent without training is nothing." Luke Skywalker
I guess it's true; the memory is the first to go
USBC SILVER CERTIFIED COACH
Gold Coach Candidate
Owner/Operator of Bowlerz Score Coaching
Tweener Rev Rate of 420, Speed 19 mph
Key Bowling Staff Member
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IBPSIA member
Former Staff Bowler at www.BowlerX.com
The useful difference isn't in identifying the PAP relative to the center of the grip.
The different way of identifying the PAP is a break even deal.
It's after that step that it become more useful.
Here is the grid I would use to Identify an unknown PAP.
http://mikew1961.linkpc.net/images/MyGrid.png
You draw the line directly from the grip center thru the PAP down to the equator.
Measure from the grip center to the PAP, Measure from the bottom right corner to the intersection with the vertical line thru the PAP.
The PAP is identified by 4 3/4 down and 1 over using the down and over system.
In my system it's 4 13/16 latitude and 5 11/16 longitude. Instead of the equator being 0 degrees, the north pole is 0 degrees.
So far both systems have done the same thing with the same amount of effort, and results. Much like measuring in English vs Metric.
Next I'll take a drilled dual angle layout convert the numbers into my system.
P.S. does anyone know what the criteria is for uploading graphic files. The picture of my shoes worked fine, but I couldn't upload the Ball images I made so I had to link to them. When I tried to upload, it showed a red exclamation to the right of the file info.
Last edited by Mike White; 07-07-2012 at 10:49 PM. Reason: I had a part method backwards
1820 you're jumping ahead, so far my two pictures are just a representation of how the down and over is used to identify the location of the PAP, and my grid to do the same task.
Later on I'll move the origin of the graph to the PAP and things will be clearer (I hope).
Step by step.
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