Reply With Quote585 is pretty good good job
Zacks, I sincerely doubt that your teammate was at fault for the carry down that affected your shot the third game. You have said he was starting left of center aiming at the 1-3 pocket with no hook, and that your shot was affected by the middle of the third game. From that we can assume he bowled 24 frames before the affect was noted. I would also guess that 75% of his first shots hit between the center of the 3 pin and the center of the 2 pin. These 18 shots would be pushing oil in front of the head pin and not into your line. Of the remaining 6 first balls I would guess half were wide left and the other half wide right, so only three of his first balls messed with your line While I wouldn't be surprised if he had thrown a few strikes, for the sake of argument let's say he didn't. From my observation of straight bowlers over the years, I would also guess one third of his leaves were in the 3-6-9-10 zone, one third in the 2-4-7-8 zone and the rest in the 1-2-3-5-8-9 zone. So that's another 9 balls pushing oil into your line. I doubt that's enough by itself to screw the line up. Combined with everyone else on the pair shooting right side spares I can see where you might have had a carrydown problem, but I would not blame your teammate.Originally Posted by zacks
John
585 is pretty good good job
Wednesday League Night: low-oil synthetics, older brunswick lanes
506 Series: 164-172-170
Game 1 was a split in the 1st frame and a split in the 10th frame...so thats wonderful.
Game 2 looked to be a "Polish 136" (strikes alternating with opens)...but then I made a couple spares...so, good times.
Game 3 I had no ability to carry...and couldn't convert a couple of the single-pin spares...so Chraphtasdic 2016.
PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.64 pins
Strikes: 33% (2 doubles and 7 singles)
Spares: 60% picked up
Single Pin spares: 70% (7/10)
Most common single-pin leave: 4-pin (3x).
Never left a single 1-pin, 2-pin, 3-pin, 8-pin, nor 9-pin.
Multiple Pin spares: 50% (5/10)
Most common multi-pin leave: 2-4-5 (2x)
Splits: 25% (1/4)
Average over 3 games: 168.67.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 179.33.
Missed my Sunday morning lesson; rescheduled for this coming Sunday. Had a lesson yesterday and talked about the Defiant Edge. The coach watched it and agreed with me that it just wasn't doing what we thought it would do. Like the Asylum, I'm sure it's a good ball...many people have liked it and many people have had success with it...but the ball just has snap on the backend at my speed/rev rate. It's not burning out, like the Asylum was.
The Asylum was starting the hook phase way too soon. It (Asylum) wasn't strong enough on fresh...but hooked way too soon when lanes transitioned. The Defiant Edge seems to have the hook phase delayed appropriately for my game/shot...but it doesn't have any "snap".
So...the dilemma. When the Asylum got retired early...it was no big deal because the Melee Jab (and later the Loaded Revolver) both took the place of the Asylum and were already drilled, etc... This time around...I actually HAD a ball that could have served as a "skid/flip" ball at 16lbs; a DV8 Ruckus. BUT...last month I came home and found it cracked in half on my bowling ball rack. So, I spent hours upon hours trying to find the receipt...never ended up finding it...but I emailed DV8 and they said they would send me a replacement. But, since the Ruckus is no longer in stock, they offered a new DV8 Thug Life...which would have been an even MORE perfect skid/flip ball. But...before shipping it...according to the guy at DV8...they realized they were out of stock on that one as well and offered any ball in the Brunwick/DV8/Radical line. I was leaning towards a Radical Jackpot Solid...but decided to go with a 15lb Quantum Forest Green. Still don't have it...but I'm throwing 16lb right now anyways...no big deal.
So, long story long...I decided to finally pay more than $105 for a ball...and got a Hammer Scandal Pearl. I'm concerned about using a ball with a symmetric core as a "skid/flip" ball...but the rest of the specs look strong AND it's another low-RG polished Pearl...to go with the other two low-RG polished Pearls...replacing a low-RG polished Pearl...so it makes sense in terms of my current arsenal.
Tonight, I don't have it yet...still in the pro shop...so I brought over the 900Global Bullet Train just to try it out in warm-up...but it didn't feel right....so I started with the Reax Pearl. Used the Innovate in Games 2 and 3. I would have balled down sometime during Game 3...if I had a ball to "ball down" to. I thought about going and getting my Hammer Blue spare ball out of the trunk and just try to play out-and-in...especially on the lane I couldn't figure out...but I didn't want to put my sandals on, go get it, have to mess with the tape, blah, blah, blah...
Now I'm debating whether I want to bowl in the ABT event this Saturday. There's really no point to competing against those guys if I'm a 160-175 bowler carrying a high 180s average. But, then I thought about it some more...and I remembered I was using the ABT tournament as an excuse to get out of Thanksgiving dinner with a friend...and this weekend's event gets you bonus pins for Thanksgiving weekend...sooooo...I probably will bowl. Maybe the new ball will be ready by then and I can try it out.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 176; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
I Never liked the drill on your asylum and from what I'm hearing on the performance of this ball I'm wondering about it too. So far you have 2 complete duds out of 6-8 balls drilled I'm starting to wonder about your driller a bit. Especially when your bringing balls in and not purchasing from him if he's really taking the time to lay the balls out properly. You might go over to bowlingchat.net and talk with Eric Hartwell for a bit and get a second opinion on your layouts. If you do you need to know your ball speed, rev rate, axis tilt, and axis rotation. I'm just starting to wonder a bit.
You were looking for a skid/flip ball and decided on the Green Quantum? Good ball not skid/snap
Scandal pearl is a nice ball but it's not skid snap though. The Scandal pearl has a very strong cover and reads too early in the mids to be skid/snap it has a strong continuous move towards the pocket. This may be a good thing with your game. It's a motion that is comparable with your Reax pearl but just a little stronger from what I've seen. My guess would be 2-1 to 4-2 left of the Reax.
I am a proud member of Bowlingboards.com bowling forums and ball contest winner
Current arsenal
900 Global Badger Claw - Radical Ridiculous Pearl - Spare Ball Ebonite T Zone
My coach decides on the layout/balance hole. The driller just follows those directions. I'll have to look at the layout on the Defiant Edge when I get it back. I hope it's not a layout issue...because the new Scandal Pearl is getting the same layout. I don't have the Asylum anymore...gave it away...and the kid I gave it to doesn't use it...but I have pictures of the layout so I can compare.
I'm skeptical of this theory only because if said hypothesis is correct, that means a PBA pro either doesn't understand how to properly lay out a ball and/or is intentionally messing up bowling balls hoping I'll eventually buy a new one from the shop. Now, I 'have' heard that some PBA pros know a lot more about bowling ball technology than other PBA pros...I think thats a safe enough statement that even Rob and Mike would agree on it (knocking on wood). I also completely understand, given the state of bowling and how tight the margins are in bowling merchandising/sales...that a pro shop may use tactics like that to push a bowler into their higher end products...but;
1) This pro had a chance to push products for a year and a half...and only once did I do a demo ...and the pro knows I have undrilled bowling balls up the wazooo. The first question I got asked when we watched the Defiant Edge was, "What else do you have undrilled?" Now, I have 7 undrilled bowling balls and (supposedly) a new one on the way...but I only have THREE that are 16lbs...an old Ebonite Warning Sign (not skid/snap), Track 706A (skid...but not enough 'snap'), and a Track 300A (pretty much a spare ball...all skid...no snap).
2) I got a 'deal' on the new Scandal Pearl...most places online it's selling for $155-$175. Drilling costs me almost always right around $55. So thats $210-$230. If I buy it off the rack at the shop there, I think it was $214 which includes the drilling but I'd have to pay another $19 for the IT and finger inserts...so $233. I got it for $205. Definitely the most expensive ball I've ever bought. And this'll be my first time using a ball that 'just' came out. But I think I got the 'discount' because they drilled the Defiant Edge not two months ago and it didn't work out.
Sorry. No. I probably confused things by mentioning that ball...I was just trying to show that I actually HAD a skid/snap ball (DV8 Ruckus) in 16lbs...but it cracked all the way around. DV8 was going to send me a replacement Thug Life...but that was also recently retired. The Thug Life would have been an even BETTER skid/flip ball, in my opinion, than the Ruckus.
BUT...since they were out of BOTH of those...and I got to choose from all 3 brands...I just really liked the style and ball movement on the Quantum...and it's probably the most expensive ball in the 3 lines right "now"...so I'm getting the most bang for the buck in this exchange, etc... NOW...to answer your comment...I decided to get the Quantum in 15lbs because it would fit really well in the 15lb arsenal I'm putting together.
So, no, it's not a "skid/flip" ball...I didn't know that the Defiant Edge wasn't going to work out until AFTER I ordered the Quantum. Had I know BEFORE...I would have went with a different ball...probably a DV8 or more likely a Radical...and would have gotten it at 16lbs
Technically, I don't yet HAVE the replacement...which has taken far, far too long to get. It's not that I'm in a hurry...not planning on drilling it anytime soon...it's just that I was really impressed with DV8's response initially...then nothing...then "oops, that one is discontinued"...then nothing...then "sorry for the delay, pick whichever ball you'd like"...then nothing. It makes me feel like I'm the butt of some office joke at Brunswick or something. I call, they tell me they're sending a replacement and each time throw in something else...then hang up, make a fart noise, and the office erupts in laughter.
According to the pro, thats Ebonite's best skid/flip ball on the market right now. I'm skeptical of a symmetric core skid/flip ball...but thats just me. I KNOW that drilling makes it assymetric...but it just seems like if you want an angular, slid/flip reaction...you need a high differential and corresponding a high amount of assymetry. It's like going to a zoo versus a petting zoo. Sure, a petting zoo is technically a zoo (once it's drilled)...but wouldn't a cooler more awesome zoo be better? I don't know. I'm willing to accept that I'll just never understand bowling ball dynamics. For all I know, a person at the factory sticks a dead gerbil in the middle of the ball and coats it with elk snot. I'm starting to think it's all just a hustle and every ball in the last 20 years has been the same...the ball just tends to move differently based on how big the dead gerbil is thats inside.
Close your eyes...using the P-Word. No, not that one...sickos.
In my "progression", the Scandal Pearl is just replacing the Defiant Edge. I still plan to use the pin-up Reax Pearl to start, then ball down to the pin-down Innovate. It's just that once the lanes start to really transition...and I'm now 2:4 left of where I started...maybe even 3:5 left of where I started...the Scandal Pearl 'should' be able to play that far inside...it'll just have more "pop" than what the Defiant Edge had.
Another theory would be to just go back to the Reax Pearl given the specs are so similar...but I didn't think about that at the time. This may be a good chance to compare ball motions between the Reax Pearl and Scandal Pearl...if I get motivated enough to do another movie. I think the manufacturer difference between these two balls...AND the symmetry difference...I am guessing the Scandal Pearl will work better in the #3 spot than the Reax Pearl would. I think the Reax grabs earlier and loses more energy earlier. I don't think the Scandal Pearl will grab as early. But, I may be wrong.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 176; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
ABT Tournament: Squad 1, Day 1
Older Brunswick synthetics: medium oil
675 Series: 228-222-225
PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 9.39 pins
Strikes: 63% (1 6-bagger, 2 5-baggers, and 5 singles)
Spares: 75% picked up
Single Pin spares: 100% (6/6)
Most common single-pin leave: 7-pin and 10-pin (2x each).
Also left a single 6-pin and 9-pin.
Multiple Pin spares: 50% (3/6)
Most common multi-pin leave: n/a
Splits: 0% (0/3)
Average over 3 games: 225.00.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: n/a
If you're thinking this looks familiar...recall the last time I did an ABT tourney, back in August. I ended up qualifying for the finals by shooting a 674 series (194-256-224). And before you get too excited...recall what happened after I made the cut and bowled in the finals. Don't recall? I shot a 457 series (170-130-157). Thats important to recall as I post the scores for my next Squad. (follow-up coming soon).
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 176; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
ABT Tournament: Squad 2, Day 1
Older Brunswick synthetics: burnt house shot
456 Series: 151-172-133
PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.13 pins
Strikes: 29% (1 double and 7 singles)
Spares: 50% picked up
Single Pin spares: 85% (6/7)
Most common single-pin leave: 2-pin (2x).
Never left a single 1-pin, 4-pin, 8-pin, nor 9-pin.
Multiple Pin spares: 33% (5/15)
Most common multi-pin leaves: 1-2-4-10 and 5-10 split (2x each)
Splits: 40% (2/5)
Average over 3 games: 152.00.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 155.67.
So....yet another ABT tournament in Rancho Cucamonga (yes, thats a real city) where I bowl well enough on fresh conditions to make the cut...but then I bowl on burnt conditions and don't even bowl well enough to qualify for special Olympics tournament. Yes, thats sort of a mean analogy...but I'm giving myself a pass...because I just bowled a f&%%^ing 456 series!!! Yet another tournament where I look like the best bowler in one round...then get completely embarrassed and humiliated in the next round.
Now...this tournament actually runs for two weekends...so there will be more squads to come...and fortunately the squad 2 scores aren't my finals scores (like last time). But, they might as well be. If I can't bowl well on lanes after one squad...2-3 bowlers per game...then thinking that I'll do well in the finals next Saturday after 3 squads get done bowling...probably a long shot.
Fortunately, I have a re-scheduled lesson tomorrow morning...and if I can actually get up tomorrow morning (I had to reschedule because last Sunday I woke up an hour late)...this WILL be the focus of the lesson. As of the cut when I left (one squad was still bowling...I didn't stay because I didn't want to deal with rush hour traffic...plus I was bowling like STANK and I knew my squad 1 score was good enough to probably get me in...not to mention I plan on bowling more qualifying squads next weekend. But, I don't know what I did wrong or need to do different. This is two times in a row that I bowl one of my best series...then look like POO.
I used the Reax Pearl for all 3 games of the first squad. I fought the urge to switch to the Innovate early on, with the Defiant Edge retired and the Scandal Pearl getting drilled...I brought my Bullet Train and Encounter with me. The Bullet Train was hitting like a wet noodle...so I started with the Reax-P. Given I didn't want to use the Encounter if I didn't have to (completely different feel (non-IT) and thumb pitches) so I waited till squad #2 to ball down to the Innovate.
And yes, maybe I AM switching balls too quickly...maybe thats why I did so well in squad 1. On the flip side of that arguement; the Innovate has been my best ball in my arsenal during league play...and usually the move from the Reax to the Innovate is fairly seamless. And it wasn't the ball (I don't think). I was pulling shots...I was trying to 'make' shots...I was missing my target, etc... My shoe was sticking (stupid BrunswickZone centers)...and then when I finally gave up on the Innovate and went to the Encounter...my thumb-hole needed a bunch of tape...so I was battling the thumb fit the remainder of the last game.
My best guess as to what went wrong? It goes back to "A-Game" versus "B-Game". I was playing the 11-board in Game 1...standing just left or just right of center (20) on the approach. By the end of that squad...I was in a couple boards...a little left of center on the approach and probably around 12 at the arrows. Then, quickly into squad 2...with 5 bowlers on our pair...I was quickly standing left toe about 26 and aiming at 14....essentially 2:4 inside. Once my left toe gets out past about 24-27...thats no longer my "A-Game"...it's actually my "C-Game". My "B-Game" is to play 80s style up the 5-board and in. But, I don't have any equipment that'll let me play the B-Game line...and I still can't seem to play inside. Not to mention, in the ABT I have a 188 average...thanks to a certain POS AMF center with a super easy shot that falsely raised my average about 10 pins.
In Bag: (: .) Motiv Trident Odyssey; (: .) Hammer Scorpion Sting; (: .) Brunswick Endeavor; (: .) Radical Outer Limits Pearl; (: .) Ebonite Maxim
USBC#: 8259-59071; USBC Sanctioned Average = 176; Lifetime Average = 171;
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 240rpm || High Game (sanc.) = 300 (268); High Series (sanc.) = 725 (720); Clean Games: 181
Smokey this is not 'Nam', this is bowling. There are rules. Proud two-time winner of a bowlingboards.com weekly ball give-away!
Nice bowling you through it good
What's happening to you here happens to a lot of bowlers. When you make a 2-1 or a 4-2 adjustment your breakpoint should stay the same. I figure yours is around 8 from your setup. I would very highly guess when your making these moves your not keeping the breakpoint. You're either walking back to the right (even a board will cause this) or your closing your hips and shoulders as you move in. Watch where your ball is when you start the night as it approaches the markers down the lane (I figure you have then newer centers there). Your ball should be in the same place at the end of the night that it is at the beginning if your only making 2-1 adjustments. I bet you money yours isn't. Fix that you fix your problem.ABT Tournament: Squad 2, Day 1
Older Brunswick synthetics: burnt house shot
456 Series: 151-172-133
PinPal Stats:
First Ball Average: 8.13 pins
Strikes: 29% (1 double and 7 singles)
Spares: 50% picked up
Single Pin spares: 85% (6/7)
Most common single-pin leave: 2-pin (2x).
Never left a single 1-pin, 4-pin, 8-pin, nor 9-pin.
Multiple Pin spares: 33% (5/15)
Most common multi-pin leaves: 1-2-4-10 and 5-10 split (2x each)
Splits: 40% (2/5)
Average over 3 games: 152.00.
Average had I picked up 100% of single pin spare leaves: 155.67.
So....yet another ABT tournament in Rancho Cucamonga (yes, thats a real city) where I bowl well enough on fresh conditions to make the cut...but then I bowl on burnt conditions and don't even bowl well enough to qualify for special Olympics tournament. Yes, thats sort of a mean analogy...but I'm giving myself a pass...because I just bowled a f&%%^ing 456 series!!! Yet another tournament where I look like the best bowler in one round...then get completely embarrassed and humiliated in the next round.
Now...this tournament actually runs for two weekends...so there will be more squads to come...and fortunately the squad 2 scores aren't my finals scores (like last time). But, they might as well be. If I can't bowl well on lanes after one squad...2-3 bowlers per game...then thinking that I'll do well in the finals next Saturday after 3 squads get done bowling...probably a long shot.
Fortunately, I have a re-scheduled lesson tomorrow morning...and if I can actually get up tomorrow morning (I had to reschedule because last Sunday I woke up an hour late)...this WILL be the focus of the lesson. As of the cut when I left (one squad was still bowling...I didn't stay because I didn't want to deal with rush hour traffic...plus I was bowling like STANK and I knew my squad 1 score was good enough to probably get me in...not to mention I plan on bowling more qualifying squads next weekend. But, I don't know what I did wrong or need to do different. This is two times in a row that I bowl one of my best series...then look like POO.
I used the Reax Pearl for all 3 games of the first squad. I fought the urge to switch to the Innovate early on, with the Defiant Edge retired and the Scandal Pearl getting drilled...I brought my Bullet Train and Encounter with me. The Bullet Train was hitting like a wet noodle...so I started with the Reax-P. Given I didn't want to use the Encounter if I didn't have to (completely different feel (non-IT) and thumb pitches) so I waited till squad #2 to ball down to the Innovate.
And yes, maybe I AM switching balls too quickly...maybe thats why I did so well in squad 1. On the flip side of that arguement; the Innovate has been my best ball in my arsenal during league play...and usually the move from the Reax to the Innovate is fairly seamless. And it wasn't the ball (I don't think). I was pulling shots...I was trying to 'make' shots...I was missing my target, etc... My shoe was sticking (stupid BrunswickZone centers)...and then when I finally gave up on the Innovate and went to the Encounter...my thumb-hole needed a bunch of tape...so I was battling the thumb fit the remainder of the last game.
My best guess as to what went wrong? It goes back to "A-Game" versus "B-Game". I was playing the 11-board in Game 1...standing just left or just right of center (20) on the approach. By the end of that squad...I was in a couple boards...a little left of center on the approach and probably around 12 at the arrows. Then, quickly into squad 2...with 5 bowlers on our pair...I was quickly standing left toe about 26 and aiming at 14....essentially 2:4 inside. Once my left toe gets out past about 24-27...thats no longer my "A-Game"...it's actually my "C-Game". My "B-Game" is to play 80s style up the 5-board and in. But, I don't have any equipment that'll let me play the B-Game line...and I still can't seem to play inside. Not to mention, in the ABT I have a 188 average...thanks to a certain POS AMF center with a super easy shot that falsely raised my average about 10 pins.
So I took a few minutes to look up the specs on the four bowling balls you list: Reax Pearl (2.49 rg, .054 diff), Innovate (2.49 rg, .046 diff), Defiant Edge (2.59 rg, .054 diff), Scandal Pearl (2.48 rg, .054 diff). Regardless of how you decide if a ball is weak or strong, the fact of the matter is that you've got 4 balls that are virtually identical, and they are all very aggressive. If you insist on defining your A game and B game by where you play on the outside (dry) part of the lane, you should take a look at some entry level and urethane balls that will work in the desert. The Fanatic BTU (Better than Urethane) would probably be a good choice as would the Mix or the Joy Ride.
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