The curse of Game 2!!

[Aslan]

I'm really kinda pissed off right now.

The last 2 weeks…I've seen the same darn story repeat itself:

Game 1: Game around 200…doing great.

Game 2: 120s-140s…horrible.

Game 3: 140s-150s….better but below my average.

I mean, 2 straight weeks where out of the gate I am really good…and then for some reason in game 2 I completely fall apart, only to try to salvage a decent series in Game 3. A 499 series last week and 485 series this week. A 485 series is HORRIBLE considering I scored a 210 in game 1!!

I don't get it. I'm trying to move left as the lane conditions change…I've changed balls to match up better with the lane conditions…yet each week…same ole story.

Tonight I not only led my team to victory in Game 1, but won the poker hand with 9 marks (only open was the 2nd frame). I was feeling as confident as ever…only to see me fall to utter embarrassment in game 2.

On the one hand, don't want to fall into my tendency to over think things…and I don't want to re-develop bad habits of "chucking the ball". On the other hand…with this slower, lower loft release…I can't seems to stay right of the headpin…even after going from the Rhythm to the Frantic. I mean, for ****s sake…how far and fast do I have to move left to stay ahead of oil pattern changes?? I spent all night between the 5-10 boards…with my left foot between center and 7 boards right of center. By the time I even considered going down a ball to the Slingshot…the night was at an end.

[RobLV1]

It's all a matter of traffic on the lanes. Yesterday after our trios league, a friend of mine came up to me complaining about how much the lanes were hooking. He told me that by the fourth game (we bowl two games on a pair, move one pair to the right, and bowl two more games against the same team) he was using a plastic spare ball. He is a typical house bowler who stands on the big dot in the center and targets the second arrow. Now, here's the deal: during the course of the four games, I used two very aggressive bowling balls, the Mastermind and the Mastermind Genius. I started out standing 32, crossing the arrows around 16, throwing out to around 10 at the tracers. By the end of the fourth game, I was standing 35, crossing around 17, throwing out to around 12 at the tracers. I never "balled down," and had to move only three boards over the course of four games for the simple reason that I was the only one playing that line. If you insist on playing the outside part of the lane with everyone else, to answer your question of "how far and fast do I have to move left to stay ahead of oil pattern changes," the answer is very far and very fast if you choose to play with everyone else. If, and when, you decide that you can use the friction that is past the pattern, rather than the friction that is outside the pattern, then the answer becomes not too far, and not too fast. It's your choice!

[vdubtx]

I had the same kind if night last night. 246-194-254. My problem was 10 pins. Rob Is right though, less moves typically needed the further in you play, assuming not many others are playing same line.

[Aslan]

I had the same kind if night last night. 246-194-254. My problem was 10 pins. Rob Is right though, less moves typically needed the further in you play, assuming not many others are playing same line.

For me; it's definitely a trend.

Game 1 average: 202
Game 2 average: 142
Game 3 average: 169

Thats after 3 weeks.

I used two very aggressive bowling balls, the Mastermind and the Mastermind Genius. I started out standing 32, crossing the arrows around 16, throwing out to around 10 at the tracers. By the end of the fourth game, I was standing 35, crossing around 17, throwing out to around 12 at the tracers. I never "balled down," and had to move only three boards over the course of four games for the simple reason that I was the only one playing that line. If you insist on playing the outside part of the lane with everyone else, to answer your question of "how far and fast do I have to move left to stay ahead of oil pattern changes," the answer is very far and very fast if you choose to play with everyone else. If, and when, you decide that you can use the friction that is past the pattern, rather than the friction that is outside the pattern, then the answer becomes not too far, and not too fast. It's your choice!

I'm a believer in developing 3 speeds and 3 lines (outside, 2nd arrow, and inside). The problem is, I think you need an asymmetric core ball or a high rev rate in order to be effective inside. I've tried using a ball with an aggressive overstock…high hook rating…but a symmetric core ball just doesn't have that backend snap. You can't throw it out towards that 10-pin…2/3 down the lane, and have it "snap" back.

You're using the Mastermind…one of the 3 highest hook (in terms of overall rating) asymmetric balls on the market. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those yet. So I've all but given up on my inside game right now. And since I want to break my "chucking it" habit…I'm holding off on developing more revs or a higher speed.

Just really frustrated. I guess I can all down to the Slingshot, maybe try the Frantic at a lower speed inside…but man, this is gonna be a LONG month!! (Synthetic Lanes added by June sometime.)

[Mike White]

For me; it's definitely a trend.

Game 1 average: 202
Game 2 average: 142
Game 3 average: 169

Thats after 3 weeks.



I'm a believer in developing 3 speeds and 3 lines (outside, 2nd arrow, and inside). The problem is, I think you need an asymmetric core ball or a high rev rate in order to be effective inside. I've tried using a ball with an aggressive overstock…high hook rating…but a symmetric core ball just doesn't have that backend snap. You can't throw it out towards that 10-pin…2/3 down the lane, and have it "snap" back.

I can throw it out towards the 10-pin... 2/3 down the lane, and have it "snap" back. As long as the back ends are fairly clean.

Not only with a symmetric core ball, but even with a pancake weight block ball, both plastic surface (White Dot) and urethane (Storm Mix, and Polar Ice)
But like you commented above, it requires a high rev rate since I don't rely on the lane to increase the rev rate of the ball.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: Before you can learn to play deeper inside, you have to realize that you don't need three different shots to play three different lines. You just move your feet left and your target left, while opening your shoulders to project the ball out to your breakpoint. That's all that's different. Try to adjust by changing ball speeds is dangerous to anyone below the pro level. It's very difficult to change your ball speed without changing your timing, and timing is the key to everything: balance, tempo, direction (accuracy), and the effectiveness of your release. Your shot should be the same whether you are playing the first arrow or the third arrow. As for needing a ball that "hooks more," balls don't hook more or less, they just hook earlier or later. Realize that on a 40' house shot, there is still 20' feet of friction past the pattern. You don't have to mess with the early friction on the outside of the pattern unless you choose to.

[Aslan]

But like you commented above, it requires a high rev rate since I don't rely on the lane to increase the rev rate of the ball.

A thumbless player can throw a 6lb ball halfway down the lane and get it to come back….but at a rev rate that would exceed even the "Tweener" rate I can accomplish only when really torquing my shot (coming WAY up the side and "chucking" it).

you have to realize that you don't need three different shots to play three different lines.

Sorry. I meant you need 3 different speeds AND 3 different lines. Not 3 different speed/line combinations. I agree…I'm working on one speed and trying to work on 3 different lines for that very reason. Adjusting my speed down…has been a struggle…and the last thing I need right now is to start "firing" the ball further down the lane again…= progress lost.

As for needing a ball that "hooks more," balls don't hook more or less, they just hook earlier or later. Realize that on a 40' house shot, there is still 20' feet of friction past the pattern. You don't have to mess with the early friction on the outside of the pattern unless you choose to.

I realize that. But if you look at standard ball "tracks" you'll see symmetric core balls tend to have smoother arcs. A solid coverstock balls will look sort of like a backwards "C" versus a pearl, where it's gonna look more like a fish hook or backwards/upside down "J". Now, obviously…RGs, Diffs, releases, drillings…all these play their part in adjusting that slightly…but do you agree with that assessment generally??

The value of the asymmetric core is it increases that Diff and gives you a more angular, dramatic turn into the pocket. Correct?

Case in Points:
My Storm Frantic is my best ball. It does what every bowler cries for….it goes long and comes back hard. BUT! BUT…not "angular". It goes late and comes back smoothly into the pocket. Thats why I think its a great ball for beginners or as a ball down for guys with larger arsenals that need something for lower oil.

My Hammer Rhythm (essentially a Hammer Arson with a solid coverstock), as you would say, doesn't hook "more"…it hooks "earlier". That is true. That is very, very true. Its RG is very close to the Frantic (as most balls are very close to 2.5 in RG)…its diff is also similar…drilling similar as well. But it doesn't go "long"…not on wood lanes. I can "make" it go long…loft it 20ft and "force" it to hook later.

But…BUT….the point is…the Rhythm is for heavier oil. Using it on wood lanes…at my lower speed/rev rate is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Right? Can't out bowl a bad ball reaction right? So what if I move inside. Lets say I start at the 15-board and throw over center towards my break point with the Rhythm. Slow my speed…give it as MUCH time as it needs to get back across that last 20ft. But it won't work. The core is fighting me. I'm asking it to take a more angular path than it's designed for.

Thats my working theory anyways. Based on what I've learned about balls…mostly from you by the way…(bowling balls ya weirdos). Now, if anyone wants to prove me wrong…and they have a standard, symmetric, solid overstock drilled ball (without and weird drillings) and would like to throw that ball…inside line (throwing from 10 boards+ left of center) out to the right towards a break point…and have that ball come back into the pocket…all with a rev rate < 300rpms…go ahead and impress me. Thats what Youtube is for right?

[Mike White]

A thumbless player can throw a 6lb ball halfway down the lane and get it to come back….but at a rev rate that would exceed even the "Tweener" rate I can accomplish only when really torquing my shot (coming WAY up the side and "chucking" it).

Yes they can get it to come back because they don't throw those 6# balls at an angle to the right, they "skid" the ball along the oil line.

Thats my working theory anyways. Based on what I've learned about balls…mostly from you by the way…(bowling balls ya weirdos). Now, if anyone wants to prove me wrong…and they have a standard, symmetric, solid overstock drilled ball (without and weird drillings) and would like to throw that ball…inside line (throwing from 10 boards+ left of center) out to the right towards a break point…and have that ball come back into the pocket…all with a rev rate < 300rpms…go ahead and impress me. Thats what Youtube is for right?

If someone throws the ball 10+ boards left of center out to a break point on the right side of the lane, the ball initially has a good deal of momentum in the left to right direction.

The only force to counter act that momentum comes from the RPMs, adjusted by the axis rotation and axis tilt and ball - lane interaction.

If you limit the rev rate to <300, it's likely there is more momentum away from the head pin than the RPMs can create back towards the head pin.

When those are the same, the best you can do is get the ball to stop moving to the right, you need more momentum to the left from the RPMS get make the ball turn back to the left.

In the past, people played very parallel to the boards to eliminate the momentum away from the head pin, because it was difficult to produce momentum towards the head pin via RPMS / ball - lane interaction.

The modern reactive resin balls have greatly increased the ball - lane interaction (when the ball in on a dry part of the lane), to the point it's easy to create too much momentum back towards the headpin.

That is why the THS has so much oil in the middle.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: Very good question! My initial response is that symmetrical vs. asymmetrical balls will have the same shape, based on the angles, not the pin to PAP distances. I'll try in the next week or so to shoot some video using the IQ Tour and the Mastermind Genius (both have hybrid covers) and similar layouts. Let's see!

[Aslan]

If you limit the rev rate to <300, it's likely there is more momentum away from the head pin than the RPMs can create back towards the head pin.

Exactly. 100% agree with this assessment.

I'll try in the next week or so to shoot some video using the IQ Tour and the Mastermind Genius (both have hybrid covers) and similar layouts. Let's see!

THAT would be very interesting video to watch. If you throw them the same way towards your break point…I would expect that if you're throwing from the same spot and the Mastermind Genius is "dialed in"….the IQ Tour will not make it back to the pocket and will go in to far right. Thats my hypothesis anyways.

Not saying cores are magical…just saying that the inside game for a stroker or tweener requires an asymmetric core. (my theory)