BowlingBoards Virtual Tour 2014 Standings

[Mudpuppy]

That's why you guys should use google spreadsheet instead of excel screenshots

https://docs.google.com/

You can give Aslan write privileges using his Email address and you can both enter scores / edit the layout, then give everyone else just read access. I'm guessing google docs isn't blocked by Aslan's IT security.

I have used all kinds of stuff on google including google sketchup to design my basement when I finished it - very short learning curve if you understand basic design concepts at least for me - excellent program and free and I have used their calendars quite a bit. I will definitely give it a try. Thanks for the heads up. And why isn't Switzerland participating in the VBT? Still time to sign up Hampe. International presence would be awesome.

[Hampe]

I've thought about it, but there's a few reasons I never signed up. First of all, there are only 2 centers worth playing at here, and I play leagues in both of them so I would be at -10 advantage for every game. I also don't have a car, so going to centers a bit farther away (say, an hour away in Bern or Zurich) is also a bit out of the question. Another reason is I just got done playing two leagues (one finished last week and the other finishes next week), and my wife expects me to spend more time with her now that the season is over and the weather is getting warmer.....that's the same reason I didn't join the singles summer league that one of the centers here is doing for the first time this year. There's already a few tournaments around Switzerland I'll be doing this summer which I will catch hell from the wife for . That would only leave my practice time on Sundays, which I'd prefer to use to actually practice (spare pickups, different lines, different releases) so I can get better for next year. Another issue is which average to use since I'm not a USBC member, and one of the leagues I play in doesn't count towards my official Swiss average.

I'm also a bit like Iceman....I like to see my opponents face to face and talk a bit of trash . Although, that's probably the least of the reasons not to do it.

I'll at least think about it some more....how long do I have to decide? Lol....it would be worth it just to see which centers in Switzerland Aslan would dig up

[Aslan]

I think next season might be more popular:

1) It will be the second go around so most of the kinks will have been worked out.
2) If it's a success, I could see prizes start to increase.
3) It'll start in the January/February/March timeframe and go the whole year...which will have summer overlap...but also a lot of winter bowling.

I can understand Hampe's concern because bowling centers in Switzerland may be much fewer and far between. And, many people over there don't have cars. And the summer is a busy time.

On the other hand, people don't have cars because there are ample trains and buses and trolleys...and since this is a once per month commitment...I don't buy the whole "my summer is packed with home projects". I mean....it takes like 4 hours (high estimate) to participate. 4 hours per month...a standard month has 250 hours where you're not sleeping nor working. Thats less than 1/60th of your free time each month.

There is no deadline for entry. I mean, I guess technically August 31st since September is the last month before the tournament. But at this point, my best estimate is it will take probably 9-10 points to get into the tournament...and 4 points max per month...means to have any realistic chance of making the championship round...you'd probably have to enter by no later than June 30th.

I'm also proposing one slight rule modifcation to "most improved average". Realistically, people entering AFTER June 30th shouldn't be eligible for that "back door" into the tournament. It would be too easy to enter the tournament in August...tank...then bowl great in September...and sneak into the championship round. Highest scratch game and most points above average I'd be willing to leave open to everyone regardless of their entry date...but most improved average should be limited to those who entered prior to June 30th.

Let me know if there's any objection from the committee or else I'll go add it to the rules/info page.

[Mike White]

I think next season might be more popular:

1) It will be the second go around so most of the kinks will have been worked out.
2) If it's a success, I could see prizes start to increase.
3) It'll start in the January/February/March timeframe and go the whole year...which will have summer overlap...but also a lot of winter bowling.

I can understand Hampe's concern because bowling centers in Switzerland may be much fewer and far between. And, many people over there don't have cars. And the summer is a busy time.

On the other hand, people don't have cars because there are ample trains and buses and trolleys...and since this is a once per month commitment...I don't buy the whole "my summer is packed with home projects". I mean....it takes like 4 hours (high estimate) to participate. 4 hours per month...a standard month has 250 hours where you're not sleeping nor working. Thats less than 1/60th of your free time each month.

There is no deadline for entry. I mean, I guess technically August 31st since September is the last month before the tournament. But at this point, my best estimate is it will take probably 9-10 points to get into the tournament...and 4 points max per month...means to have any realistic chance of making the championship round...you'd probably have to enter by no later than June 30th.

I'm also proposing one slight rule modifcation to "most improved average". Realistically, people entering AFTER June 30th shouldn't be eligible for that "back door" into the tournament. It would be too easy to enter the tournament in August...tank...then bowl great in September...and sneak into the championship round. Highest scratch game and most points above average I'd be willing to leave open to everyone regardless of their entry date...but most improved average should be limited to those who entered prior to June 30th.

Let me know if there's any objection from the committee or else I'll go add it to the rules/info page.

Are you making up new rules again?

In my opinion all of the "back doors" shouldn't have been built in the first place.

The guy who claims his average is 130, but is really 190, can shoot every game 1 to 5 pins over average, not raising any suspicions, not winning many points, keeping their average low, and get in via the back door.

Once into the post season, when wins matter, they bowl normal, and clean up.

The most improved can be abused the same way.

The most total pins does take effort, but they would probably have qualified for the "post season" anyways. So someone lower on that list will sneak in.

[Aslan]

Are you making up new rules again?

No. Fixing issues not previously accounted for. When I designed the "back doors" it was prior to the decision to let people join all the way up till the championship round.

After Hampe asked about the deadline to enter, I got to thinking that "most improved average" should have a minimum number of games (which is standard practice)...otherwise it could be significantly exploited.

In my opinion all of the "back doors" shouldn't have been built in the first place.

I'm sure Mudpuppy will take that into consideration for next season.

I don't see highest pin fall or most games over average being an issue since if you win those categories...98% of the time you'll be in the top half in points. And using the incoming average to keep players "grounded" should eliminate exploitation of the "most improved average" category.

The reasons for the categories existing are:
Most Improved Average: Gives credit to players that get significantly better as the tournament progresses even if they had an abysmal start or had bad luck in opponents each month.

Highest scratch pinfall: Rewards the best bowler...counterbalances the effect of handicap. If VDub has 2298 more pins knocked down than the nearest competitor, he should at least get to play a round in the championship tournament since he IS the best bowler and would have won nearly every point scratch.

Most Games bowled above incoming average: Like "most improved", it rewards a player that actually played very well but had tough luck draws. This one is least likely to be a factor since whomever wins it will likely have enough points won to already be in the tournament.

I figured these would be "MWhite Approved" since they are really designed to counter-balance handicap and "luck of the draw".

My guiding philosophy on rules is; "The rules should encourage luck (fun) yet also through other rules ensure skill plays it's part." The rules shouldn't cancel out luck completely...or it's not as fun, especiallly for newer bowlers. BUT....it can't be a "lottery ticket" where you just throw a dart at a dart board. The randomness (centers, opponents, etc...) and the handicap are desinged to add "luck" to the equation. But keeping entering averages and awarding certain fundamental type stats (like pin fall, games above average, etc...) counters luck to some degree.

Thats my take/opinion anyways.

[Mike White]

No. Fixing issues not previously accounted for. When I designed the "back doors" it was prior to the decision to let people join all the way up till the championship round.

After Hampe asked about the deadline to enter, I got to thinking that "most improved average" should have a minimum number of games (which is standard practice)...otherwise it could be significantly exploited.


I'm sure Mudpuppy will take that into consideration for next season.

I don't see highest pin fall or most games over average being an issue since if you win those categories...98% of the time you'll be in the top half in points. And using the incoming average to keep players "grounded" should eliminate exploitation of the "most improved average" category.

The reasons for the categories existing are:
Most Improved Average: Gives credit to players that get significantly better as the tournament progresses even if they had an abysmal start or had bad luck in opponents each month.

Highest scratch pinfall: Rewards the best bowler...counterbalances the effect of handicap. If VDub has 2298 more pins knocked down than the nearest competitor, he should at least get to play a round in the championship tournament since he IS the best bowler and would have won nearly every point scratch.

Most Games bowled above incoming average: Like "most improved", it rewards a player that actually played very well but had tough luck draws. This one is least likely to be a factor since whomever wins it will likely have enough points won to already be in the tournament.

I figured these would be "MWhite Approved" since they are really designed to counter-balance handicap and "luck of the draw".

My guiding philosophy on rules is; "The rules should encourage luck (fun) yet also through other rules ensure skill plays it's part." The rules shouldn't cancel out luck completely...or it's not as fun, especiallly for newer bowlers. BUT....it can't be a "lottery ticket" where you just throw a dart at a dart board. The randomness (centers, opponents, etc...) and the handicap are desinged to add "luck" to the equation. But keeping entering averages and awarding certain fundamental type stats (like pin fall, games above average, etc...) counters luck to some degree.

Thats my take/opinion anyways.

I guess you don't look at the highlighted parts of the quote.

"Highest scratch game and most points above average"

Are you back to including scratch game?

And what is "most points above average?"

If you're going to have the "back doors" they shouldn't be the secondary way of getting in.

Before considering wins, you should take the highest scratch total, most improved, and most games over average.

Then of those left, go by wins.

That way if someone making the post season would have qualified both by wins and the back door, their extra spot would go to the next wins rather than the next highest back door.

I don't like the back door idea, but if you're going to use it, do it in a way that makes sense.

[Aslan]

That way if someone making the post season would have qualified both by wins and the back door, their extra spot would go to the next wins rather than the next highest back door.

It's already that way. Lets use "if the championship round started today":

Current 2014 Tour Standings:

noeymc 4 points
Jeral999ok 3 points
Mudpuppy 3 points
Stormed1 3 points
tccstudent 3 points
vdubtx 3 points
Bunny 1 point
classygranny 1 point
MWhite 1 point
ZDawg 1 points
Aslan 0 points
JAnderson 0 points
J-Dilly 0 points
tr33frog 0 points

Current Wild Card Entry* Standings

Most Improved Average: Current Leader: Mudpuppy 190.63 to 200.50.
Highest Overall Scratch Pin Fall: Current Leader: Vdubtx; 641 pins
Most Games Above Average: Current Leader: noeymc; 3.

In this situation;
noeymc is in and gets a 1st round bye as Tour leader. He also has most games above average...but thats not relevant since he's already in.

VDub is seeded #2 (3pts, 641 pins) and faces the winner of the "Play In" match between MWhite/classygranny/Bunny/ZDawg who all have 1 point.
VDub also has most scratch pins, but since he is already in the tournament, it doesn't factor in.

Mudpuppy is seeded #3 (3pts, 633 pins) and faces #6 Stormed1 (3pts, 489 pins)
Mudpuppy has "most improved average" but doesn't need it because he's already in.

tccstudent is seeded #4 (3pts, 610 pins) and faces #5 Jeral999ok (3pts, 578 pins)

So, I think it's more in line with what you wanted....there aren't 3 spots reserved as "back doors"...a "back door" can only be utilized if you DON'T have the points to participate...BUT are the winner in one of those back door categories. It's actually very unllikely especially given the "play-in" game. But just for the sake of example...same standings above...but lets say I had most improved instead of Mudpuppy. In that scenario...I would be seeded #7 and there wouldn't be a Play-In game. A person making it in the "back door" would be seeded #7 and eliminate the Play-In game.

So if you want to GUARANTEE....100% that you make the Championship Tournament...finish in the Top FOUR in POINTS. You'll be in no matter what. If you finish 5th, 6th, or definitely 7th...or are relying on the play-in round...you're vulnerable to someone sneaking in the "back door" and bumping you out (although highly, highly unlikely for 5th and 6th place...and pretty unlikely at all). And Pin Fall IS important...as it will likely break ties and affect your seeding in the tournament.

And unlike March Madness....seeds SHUFFLE after each round. So the highest seed will always play the lowest seed each round. And the seeds LOCK upon entry. If you're a #5 seed...no matter how bad you beat your #4 seed opponent in round 1...you're still a #5 seed in Round 2.

Hopefully that makes sense.

And remember, during the tournament....winner is determined by points...but if it's a split (2-2), SCRATCH Pin Fall determines the winner. So a tie is going to favor the better bowler.

[Hampe]

I can understand Hampe's concern because bowling centers in Switzerland may be much fewer and far between. And, many people over there don't have cars. And the summer is a busy time.

On the other hand, people don't have cars because there are ample trains and buses and trolleys

This is true, which is the reason I can still bowl at all here without having a car. But Switzerland is also a small place with limited real estate available. All the bowling centers I know of in Zurich and Bern are outside of the city, and I have no clue how to get there by public transportation (if there even is any). If I were to participate, there is no way I'm schlepping my 3-ball and 2-ball bags across Switzerland in the train....I'd take the -10 pin penalty for playing at home.

...and since this is a once per month commitment...I don't buy the whole "my summer is packed with home projects". I mean....it takes like 4 hours (high estimate) to participate. 4 hours per month...a standard month has 250 hours where you're not sleeping nor working. Thats less than 1/60th of your free time each month.

True, it is only once a month. But my wife will probably only tolerate a once per month (non-practice) bowling commitment over the summer, and those are already booked for tournaments where I can win actual money, instead of just a 20$ gift certificate (that wouldn't even cover half the shipping cost were I to use it) .

[Mudpuppy]

Aslan I guarantee the landscape will change though - I won't be most improved average after month 2 or 3. I guarantee that. Someone will take that over - at least that has been the situation I have seen in the past. Typically 140-160 range is where someone can definitely get most improved - the sweet spot.

[vdubtx]

Aslan I guarantee the landscape will change though - I won't be most improved average after month 2 or 3. I guarantee that. Someone will take that over - at least that has been the situation I have seen in the past. Typically 140-160 range is where someone can definitely get most improved - the sweet spot.

True, a lot easier for folks in that average range to pick up just 1-2 marks per game and increase their scores by 15-20 pins.