Is BOWLING dying because of this!!

[Joker]

NO you MISSED my point completely... ! The strong manufacturing Nation this once was, with good paying jobs, due in part to Unions, are all but gone. Rich are getting Richer, and the middle class is growing smaller

As far as Walmart being bowlers,,, I know 6 friends that work at Wal-Mart, and they are JUST GETTING by, and not one of them bowl, or have the money to do so. Food, Car, insurance, gas,,,, that's about all they can afford!

ah sorry now I get it

[Aslan]

You have spent way too much time thinking about this Aslan

Actually I created that little manifesto a few years ago so all I did was jot down the main points. And yes, I spend way too much time thinking about a great many things...trust me.

Next league night we should all bring politics and all the points created in this thread to the forefront of conversation. You think you have a problem with people because of perceived slow bowling? Toss all this around when we go out to compete in the sport we love next time and see if the league gets along. Personally i would rather talk about that split i just left and the hot chick open bowling 4 pairs down.

FTLOB....1st, we're not actually solving these problems...we're just talking about them. 2nd, the site has a "no gun to head rule" that ensures we can't actually FORCE you to participate in any one discussion. I use this rule quite a bit concerning many of Iceman's posts actually.

I realize it's not as "fun" of a topic as most on the site...but...it kinda ties in to dwindling centers, leagues, etc... So...maybe nobody cares...maybe they do...whatever.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I do care, i care deeply about the condition of bowling and this country. But the monetary aspect in relation to the 35 years decline ( participation at highest level in either 79-80 or 80-81 ) of bowling is a just 1 of many many factors. I would contend that relationships between bowlers or lack there of in many leagues is a greater cause of bowlers quitting than money.

[Shaneshu87]

I do care, i care deeply about the condition of bowling and this country. But the monetary aspect in relation to the 35 years decline ( participation at highest level in either 79-80 or 80-81 ) of bowling is a just 1 of many many factors. I would contend that relationships between bowlers or lack there of in many leagues is a greater cause of bowlers quitting than money.

but what is causing them to quit? i used to bowl 3 or 4 leagues a week (1 five man, 1 four man, 2 doubles) no i can barely afford 2 and this year i had to make the cut to one, my lack of income has not been due to lack of pay in a hard working environment, my lack of income comes from 3 children and i'm currently studying for my B.A. in Physics/Earth Science with a minor in GIS, my cut is due to lack of income there being a student working around classes and fitting in bowling doesn't exactly work out. but in the past i have lost many bowler with decent steady factory jobs to a simple lack of money, it sucks trying to find a replacement half way through the season.

[Aslan]

Yeah, I don't think $$$ is the leading cause of the decline. $$$ is why I can't afford to bowl in two leagues...but as for overall decline I think the culprits are quite simple:

Competition.

The rise (and recently fall) of golf. The rise of youth soccer. The massive rise of video games and online gaming.

Back in the 70s/80s...boys essentially played little league baseball. Fathers would bowl in a bowling league one night or more per week. Those were the staple activities. And a lot of teams were company teams. Unions, churches, local Eagle/Moose/Knights of Columbus/Lions Clubs, etc... But I think OVERALL....it was the kids more than the jobs. As kids had more varying things to do with their time...and bowling didn't do a good job of reaching out towards the youth...those kids became adults that didn't really bowl.

I always wanted to join a league. Had my HS had a team, I'd have joined. Had any of the places I worked at had a team, I'd have signed up. And even the team I started here at my work...at first we didn't do it because I could only get 1 other person to commit to it. But then, after reaching out to the whole site...I had 2 more people and one guy offering to sub almost immediately. And before long, we had a full team (5) and a sub. And once word got around...now we have 3 more subs!! Our President of the division even came out to watch us one night! Will they stick with it and will we have a fall team?? I don't know. I may look for a team that is more competitive. One of our guys is busy with his new girlfriend. One guy loves to bowl but doesn't like that it takes 3-4 hours. But my point is...first I only had 2 people (counting me). Then, word got out...now we got 9 bowlers!! Sometimes it just takes one person trying to put something together and you'd be surprised.

And thats what I think bowling centers have to do...they have to start some of these things like youth leagues and elementary school leagues and stuff like that. There are so many people out there that would give league/sport bowling a try if they just had someone approach them. It's a relatively cheap sport (comparitive). It's available to almost anyone at any age. It's a sport most everyone has already done casually. And it doesn't take a great deal of physical prowess to be good at it. It's a sport that could attract a HUGE segment of the population...if they ever pulled their heads out of their IPads long enough to take that first step.

And thats why Bowlmor is just wrong. They want to make bowling alleys into night clubs. They want to attract college aged folks. But how does the sport grow? How does the pro shop make any money? How does the PBA get viewers? How does a 6-year old get started bowling in that environment? Bowlmor is looking at the short term while those of us that are hoping the sport rebounds are looking at the long term. IMO

[Shaneshu87]

Yeah, I don't think $$$ is the leading cause of the decline. $$$ is why I can't afford to bowl in two leagues...but as for overall decline I think the culprits are quite simple:

Competition.

The rise (and recently fall) of golf. The rise of youth soccer. The massive rise of video games and online gaming.

Back in the 70s/80s...boys essentially played little league baseball. Fathers would bowl in a bowling league one night or more per week. Those were the staple activities. And a lot of teams were company teams. Unions, churches, local Eagle/Moose/Knights of Columbus/Lions Clubs, etc... But I think OVERALL....it was the kids more than the jobs. As kids had more varying things to do with their time...and bowling didn't do a good job of reaching out towards the youth...those kids became adults that didn't really bowl.

I always wanted to join a league. Had my HS had a team, I'd have joined. Had any of the places I worked at had a team, I'd have signed up. And even the team I started here at my work...at first we didn't do it because I could only get 1 other person to commit to it. But then, after reaching out to the whole site...I had 2 more people and one guy offering to sub almost immediately. And before long, we had a full team (5) and a sub. And once word got around...now we have 3 more subs!! Our President of the division even came out to watch us one night! Will they stick with it and will we have a fall team?? I don't know. I may look for a team that is more competitive. One of our guys is busy with his new girlfriend. One guy loves to bowl but doesn't like that it takes 3-4 hours. But my point is...first I only had 2 people (counting me). Then, word got out...now we got 9 bowlers!! Sometimes it just takes one person trying to put something together and you'd be surprised.

And thats what I think bowling centers have to do...they have to start some of these things like youth leagues and elementary school leagues and stuff like that. There are so many people out there that would give league/sport bowling a try if they just had someone approach them. It's a relatively cheap sport (comparitive). It's available to almost anyone at any age. It's a sport most everyone has already done casually. And it doesn't take a great deal of physical prowess to be good at it. It's a sport that could attract a HUGE segment of the population...if they ever pulled their heads out of their IPads long enough to take that first step.

And thats why Bowlmor is just wrong. They want to make bowling alleys into night clubs. They want to attract college aged folks. But how does the sport grow? How does the pro shop make any money? How does the PBA get viewers? How does a 6-year old get started bowling in that environment? Bowlmor is looking at the short term while those of us that are hoping the sport rebounds are looking at the long term. IMO

this is in fact the one post that makes the most sense out of all the garbage surrounding everything that is bowlings downfall. amen brother you nailed it on the head!

[Amyers]

but what is causing them to quit? i used to bowl 3 or 4 leagues a week (1 five man, 1 four man, 2 doubles) no i can barely afford 2 and this year i had to make the cut to one, my lack of income has not been due to lack of pay in a hard working environment, my lack of income comes from 3 children and i'm currently studying for my B.A. in Physics/Earth Science with a minor in GIS, my cut is due to lack of income there being a student working around classes and fitting in bowling doesn't exactly work out. but in the past i have lost many bowler with decent steady factory jobs to a simple lack of money, it sucks trying to find a replacement half way through the season.

I can say I experienced this directly when I got married twenty years ago money was very tight and unfortunately bowling was one of the things that got cut.

It was my kids that brought me back. I wanted a sport for them that was something I could help them with a little and that definitely wasn't soccer. My wife got into it too (she maybe worse than I am) so now it's a family activity.

I'm the last one to complain about costs and my center probably costs less than most of yours. I defintly understand both sides from the centers side of raising prices and from paying them

[Mudpuppy]

Iceman, you and I are in agreement on this...so let me put forth Aslan's cure for the economy...

1) Repeal Bush tax cuts and restore Clinton era tax cuts (which were well below Reagan era levels).
2) Cancel foreign trade agreements that are not "fair". "Fair" trade over "free" trade.
3) Pump funds into re-creating the manufacturing base.
4) All companies headquartered in the US receive tax credits. All companies headquartered outside the US receive penalties.
5) Corporate taxes tied to unemployment rate. The more people working, the less the corporate taxes.
6) US companies cannot sell products in the US for more than they sell them outside the US (aimed at pharmaceuticals).
7) For public corporations, the CEO may not make more than 100x the lowest paid employee (Scandanavia already does a version of this). For private companies, the rule would not apply, however private companies would be subject to a minimum salary requirement of $35,000 annually (public corporations would not be subject to said rule).
8) Corporations receive tax credits for net gain in employees, tax penalties for net loss of employees.
9) Unemployment will no longer be paid by companies, but instead will be covered 100% by the States. As a trade-off, "At Will" employment is no longer allowed...involuntary firing/layoffs must be approved by state appointed/independent arbitrators.
10) Nationalized health care. Scrap Obamacare and simply expand the Medicare and Medicaid systems to cover all Americans. (Why is this an economic issue? Because corporations in the US will no longer be at a competitive disadvantage by having to supply health insurance coverage to their workers). A corporate tax will help fund this, but it will be capped at 3/4 their previous cost of providing private insurance.
11) Immigration reform will make the first offense for hiring illegal immigrants will result in a first offense of shutting down the business for no more than 30 days. A 2nd offense of no more than 50 days. Subsequent offenses = 50 days. Immigration enforcement will be doubled. Legal immigration will be tied to the unemployment rate (more unemployed = less legal immigration and vice versa).
12) Foreign Aid will be on hold until either the budget deficit is zero or poverty rates in the US are reduced by 70%.
13) Education will be publically funded including University. System will be set up similar to the EU where students will be on "tracks" but there will always be the opportunity to change tracks or privately pay for University. Support will vary based on academic acheivement. Other stuff...like free community college.
14) Housing: Banks currently holding bad mortages can sell their properties to counties in exchange for tax breaks. Counties can then sell those properties for no more than 10% of their value at a 2.4% interest rate. State counties manage and benefit from the profits made.
15) Banking re-regulation...banks can only invest 25% of the funds on hand. If the bank fails, those with money in the bank lose at most 25%. Credit card interest rates capped at 16.9%.

There ya go...a 15-point plan that will turn things around. But the general reason for the US decline Ice is simple. The US was at the top of the pyramid and suddenly global trade came along. THe idea was it would rise everyone else to the US level or prosperity...but what it really did was level the field and bring the US down a couple notches. In the old days, "trickle down economics" worked because if you gave Rockafeller money he would use it to open a new facility in a nearby state or city. Now, you give a corporation a tax break, they close their facility in Missouri and open one in Dubai. It makes no monetary sense NOT to...they can get labor FAR cheaper there.

So there ya go...15 points to Utopia...and more disposable income...and more bowling!!

Cliff Notes: IMPEACH THEM ALL and then execute every last one of the traitors who call themselves our government.

I strongly agree the erosion of the middle class is not only ruining bowling but a lot of other things in this country. The foundation is cracking and it is very evident everywhere you go we are a nation in decay. I could type paragraphs that would be even longer than Aslan could imagine on this subject but it's a waste of my time.

[mc_runner]

Erosion of the middle class is absolutely a factor (not just for bowling like MP said but for a lot of things). The rise of technology and electronic entertainment is another... league bowlers are an older demographic and there aren't a ton of young teams joining up the leagues. Instant gratification, jump on the computer or XBOX and your friends are there... it's a different social animal. Really it just comes down to evolution of our society, things change with the times. I don't think bowling (league or otherwise) except maybe for the PBA as we know it will ever go away, however, there may be less centers to choose from in 20 years.

I also think that the centers that DO survive will be doing quite well. It's basically a slow market correction.

[MICHAEL]

Cliff Notes: IMPEACH THEM ALL and then execute every last one of the traitors who call themselves our government.

I strongly agree the erosion of the middle class is not only ruining bowling but a lot of other things in this country. The foundation is cracking and it is very evident everywhere you go we are a nation in decay. I could type paragraphs that would be even longer than Aslan could imagine on this subject but it's a waste of my time.

Erosion of the middle class is absolutely a factor (not just for bowling like MP said but for a lot of things). The rise of technology and electronic entertainment is another... league bowlers are an older demographic and there aren't a ton of young teams joining up the leagues. Instant gratification, jump on the computer or XBOX and your friends are there... it's a different social animal. Really it just comes down to evolution of our society, things change with the times. I don't think bowling (league or otherwise) except maybe for the PBA as we know it will ever go away, however, there may be less centers to choose from in 20 years.

I also think that the centers that DO survive will be doing quite well. It's basically a slow market correction.

GREED by the (((so called job creators is KILLING this country plain and simple))) The MODEL that I believe Aslan mentioned stated that it would bring the REST OF THE WORLDS Standard of living up to OUR LEVEL....LOL,,, what has happen is OURS, do to laws that favor big corporations sending work over seas, is GOING DOWN THE DUMP!

Its a sad situation that this country is in at this point and time, and I blame both the Repugnut's, and the Dimwit's!! DO you really think either party gives a rats ask about you JOE THE PLUMBER??? (( I mean Jose the plumber))!

Wages are going down hill for blue color workers, and upper management, and CEO's are going UP!!

INDUSTRY is all but gone,,,, and they were the bread and butter of the working Bowling Class!! You see Bowlmor knows this, and who are they catering to with their new role model.... (LIKE IN NEWYORK) The same people that got US INTO THIS MESS we are in now... bankers, and investors!

Who are the main suppliers of jobs in this country today! Government, Food industry, and Wally-World, and Wally Word, and other then the government jobs the rest are LOW PAYING, GO NOWHERE JOBS!

I remember when banks had dozens and dozens of clerks holding down jobs that computers have taken!

I remember when car plants had painters, wielders and assemblers that did the WORK THAT ROBOTS DO now built in foreign countries.

People are being replaced faster then jobs can be created, one of the reasons our government keeps creating jobs, and grows HUGE!

Their are solutions, but it's not going to happen with the group of worthless, with-out-honor , on the pickle people representing us NOW!

GET MAD MIDDLE CLASS vote them ALL OUT>>>> EVERYONE OF THEM,,,, before its to late to SAVE BOWLING!!!

VOTE FOR ASLAN,,, THE MAN THAT represents the middle CLASS Hard WORKING BOWLER, not of the Lady kind!!!
A VOTE FOR ASLAN is a Vote for WHATEVER,,,, but better then what we have NOW!!

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