The addiction continues...added 2 DREAM BALLS to the Closet of Victory!!!

[Amyers]

Well first off the Asylum will handle about as much oil as your are likely to see you might need to adjust the cover stock if you are looking at a swamp but short of that your good there. I don't know that I would throw out what you have now but I would make a decision throw 15 throw 16 whatever and stick to it having multiple arsenals stuck in the closet for years is insane. Your 15lb line up sounds better to me but it may just be because it has balls I'm more familiar with in than its actually better.

I will say I think surface prep makes much more difference than solid, hybrid, pearl I do very much believe that if you took all three Hyroads and put the same surface prep on them you'd have three copies of the same ball. I think a lot of the ball stuff is overrated too but there are exceptions I see some balls that just have inherent different motions and shapes to the pocket than others but in reality there are really only three shapes out there. I think if you have those shapes covered on THS anyway your done. With sport patterns maybe a different story I haven't thrown enough or watched enough of those to see if that's really so.

Biggest mistake in this post "I already ran an extensive experiment showing that by and large, bowling ball to bowling ball has very little effect on getting a ball to hit the pocket for a below average bowler with about a 250rpm rev rate"

Nobody says a balls job is to get to the pocket your responsible for putting it in the pocket its the reaction once it gets there that the ball is responsible for not getting there.

[Aslan]

but I would make a decision throw 15 throw 16 whatever and stick to it having multiple arsenals stuck in the closet for years is insane.

The multiple arsenals at different weights wasn't the original design. I changed my original appraoch of throwing multiple weights simultaneously and that led to creating arsenals of all one weight...but I had 16lb AND 15lb balls....so I had to make them into unique arsenals.

Your 15lb line up sounds better to me but it may just be because it has balls I'm more familiar with in than its actually better.

I'm excited about it! (Ron M close your eyes...gonna obsess about my arsenal here a bit) The Asylum is a 900-series ball and I've seen a lot of good players throwing it. The Fortera Exile is a top of the line ball and actually built/marketed for skid/flip. The Dark Encounter is a solid version of the Encounter I'm already familiar with. Not sure what to expect from the Lethal Revolver. It's a symmetric core solid cover stock...so I'm thinking it'll behave like the Rhythm. But it'll probably go longer with a more aggressive backend.

The progression will "probably" be starting out with the Dark Encounter, balling down to the Lethal Revolver, then balling down to the Asylum...with the Fortera Exile being the ball for when the lanes have started to really break down and I need length. The other distinct possibility is that I end up starting with the Exile, then Dark Encounter, then Lethal Revolver, and using the Asylum for the drier/broken down conditions. Like I found out with the Bullet Train I just added...numbers are all good and great...but a more aggressive cover stock will often times trump the RGs, Diffs, and cores.

Right now, PerfectScale-wise, I have 4 balls > 200 and the Slingshot at 157. The new arsenal will have 3 balls > 200 with the Asylum at 194. So it'll be an overall slightly more aggressive line-up from the PerfectScale standpoint (if you put any stock in that).

The only questionable thing about the arsenal (besides whether the Fortera Exile will be ball #1 or ball #4 in the progression) is whether there is enough difference between the Lethal Revolver and Asylum. These balls are closer in specs than I'd "like" them to be...and if the Asylum's coverstock is more aggressive...it could end up being a ball with nearly an identical track...but we'll see. It's all about throwing them and seeing what they do. The numbers can only guide the selection process.

I will say I think surface prep makes much more difference than solid, hybrid, pearl

Agree and disagree. One thing I've noticed with the Pearl Encounters is that while the surface change has made a minor change in it's track to the pocket...a Pearl is a Pearl. You can't make a Pearl into a solid by sanding it. I've brought it down to 500 abralon and sanded it with wet/dry 1000 grit sandpaper...about as much surface as you can do...and it changed it's track ONE board. It's just NOT designed to do what a solid cover does. If anything, sanding down a pearl coverstock will cause it to burn out too early (Rob might be able to comment on this if he didn't take my advice and is still reading this). The coverstock is VERY important. My Slingshot arguably has the most aggressive move to the pocket of my entire arsenal...and it's a PerfecScale of 157...an entry level ball. But...it's a polished pearl cover...so it saves up energy. I "think" Rob would agree with me on that. But if I polished the beejezus out of my Rhythm...I doubt I'd get that skid/flip reaction...because it's solid cover isn't designed to do that. I'd likely just make it go a little longer before it started it's turn.

Biggest mistake in this post "I already ran an extensive experiment showing that by and large, bowling ball to bowling ball has very little effect on getting a ball to hit the pocket for a below average bowler with about a 250rpm rev rate"

Nobody says a balls job is to get to the pocket your responsible for putting it in the pocket its the reaction once it gets there that the ball is responsible for not getting there.

What I mean was...all 3 balls followed similar paths to the pocket and covered a similar number of boards. Many of these ball videos give the false impression that if you buy their next big thing...you can move into the left gutter and start playing a power game...and thats NOT going to happen. You're still stuck playing outside or up the track until you perfect a pro style release.

RobM might refute this and say he plays the inside line and doesn't have a huge amount of revs. But from what I've seen...Rob plays more "the middle"...not the "inside". He's throwing up 15-20, using the heavy oil area to build up energy...then it makes a slight move when it hits the dry. He's not standing left gutter and throwing it at the 6-board waiting for that L-shape snap like a Belmo. He doesn't have the revs for that (very few do...especially keeping their thumb in the ball).

So, I agree the bowler is what gets the ball to the pocket...not the ball. But the ball manufacturers tend to overplay what the ball will actually do differently and makes the bowler believe the ball can help them open up the lane more than it can (in most cases). I thought an assymetric core, pro-performance ball like the Encounter would allow me to move inside and play a power game. It did NOT. The lowly mid-level performance Rhythm STILL kicked the Encounter's tail in terms of cutting through oil and making a move to the pocket and covering more boards. And I believe...it's simply because the Encounter's stronger core...was no match for the Rhythm's stronger solid cover. It's also why the Storm BYTE underperformed when all the people throwing SYNCs bought it. Because the SYNC was still stronger (overall). The BYTE went longer than they expected. It left washouts. And on shorter patterns...it moved TOO aggressively when it encountered the dry. Coverstocks trump just about everything else in terms of ball movement...at least from the experimentation I've done using a lower rev rate. Now...at an MWhite rev rate...maybe things change a bit...and they probably do.

[Amyers]

Well for me anyway I'm not sure I would want anything stronger/earlier than my Asylum for me anyway the Fortera looks interesting too me and I have really had an itch to try one of the strong pearl go long and come back balls because I've never had that kind of reaction but I have held off because I'm afraid I'll find out the same lesson you learned and it will look the same when I throw it. I've never seen anyone using an Encounter period the Lethal Revolver worries me there are three of them sitting around on the racks of house balls at my home lanes if it was a very good ball with it being recent vintage I can't imagine someone not picking them up. If your thinking of using the Asylum as a dry lane/breakdown ball I think your going to be surprised there

[Aslan]

If your thinking of using the Asylum as a dry lane/breakdown ball I think your going to be surprised there

We'll see. You may be right. I thought the Bullet Train would be a good replacement for the Frantic.

Storm Frantic: symmetric core, RG = 2.53, Diff. = 0.045, 1500 surface, hybrid cover stock
900Global Bullet Train: symmetric core, RG = 2.539, Diff. = 0.040, 2500 surface, hybrid cover stock

I mean...by the NUMBERS...nearly IDENTICAL balls.

Then you throw them....the Frantic goes MUCH longer than the Bullet Train. Not even close.

Now, when I say close...it's generally the same track, etc... But the Bullet Train moves way sooner than the Frantic. And the pro shop guy that drilled the Bullet Train explained that it was simply the cover stock. The Frantic uses Storms mid-range/intermediate level cover...the Bullet Train had a much stronger S79 Neat cover. Both hybrids...but very different. And suddenly...the Bullet Train went from being the ball I'd use as a 4th ball down option...to the ball I start with on fresh oil. Go figure.

[Amyers]

Well I'm not an expert on 900 global don't see a whole of them here but according to what I looked at the cover on the bullet train is S79 even the new Moxie is only listed at S78 I'm guessing that the higher number represent stronger covers (could be wrong) the Bullet Train has one of the strongest covers 900 ever put on a ball. The 2500 finish vs. the polished finish on the Frantic probably has something to do with it being earlier.

Core plays a role but you have to consider the strength of the cover along with it.

The Frantic was intended for light to medium/light oil the Bullet Train was intended for heavy to medium/heavy oil

One of the reasons I have no want to purchase a ball that I haven't seen someone who's game I know throw the ball.

[Aslan]

The 2500 finish vs. the polished finish on the Frantic probably has something to do with it being earlier.

Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

[Perrin]

Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

Numbers always tell the story the problem is the ball companies don't give the numbers that we would need to do an actual ball to ball comparison.

the Coverstock coefficient of Friction, rate of absorption, and etc #'s that actually tell you how the cover interracts with the lane and oil on it.

[Mike White]

Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

Ball surface, and oil pattern effect the length of the skid phase.

The dynamic numbers have more to do with the hook phase.

A ball with a rough surface, and a high RG can have a short skid, and a long hook phase.

Likewise a ball with a polished surface, and a low RG can have a long skid phase, and a short hook phase.

[Amyers]

The frantic is 1500 polished the bullet train 2500 the polish on the frantic means it has less surface probably closer to 5500

[Mike White]

The frantic is 1500 polished the bullet train 2500 the polish on the frantic means it has less surface probably closer to 5500

Also consider the Frantic has hundreds of games on it, while the bullet train has few.

A synthetic lane will smooth the surface of the ball over time.

Even if both balls started the same, the Frantic would be much smoother due to use.

The exception is when the frantic hits an area on the lane it's not supposed to, like bouncing out of the gutter, into the pin setter.