What do you think constitutes a fair handicap?

[MICHAEL]

Viva la Revolution!!!! We bowler’s that don’t want handicap unite!!! Its time to take the pin’s by their heads and say: “ We are mad as Hell,,, and we aren’t going to take it any more” ( from another movie bill,,, know the name?? lol.
Be a Man/Woman! If you bowl low scores,,,,, so what??? If it’s the best you can do so be it! Why have the bowling god give you huge amounts of pins to level the playing field. I am not a kid, but in my days that was called stacking the deck!! We are bring up a generation of kids that ALL THINK THEY ARE SPECIAL, no matter how damn dumb they are! If your dumb, your dumb!! Live with it! I know I do!! Bowling should be a sport of the Scratch bowling! If you never win, so what? Do YOU REALLY Fill Good when you beat a guy/gal that bowled a 234, and you had a 175, but because the,( Bowling Level Field Fair Play Act),,, you win!! Did you REALLY win!!! Did you Really!!
As most of you know my thoughts on handicap!! I will refrain from making any more comments!!
If I ruffled any people with large handicaps that feel good beating better bowlers, (which I am not), well get over it! That’s What America Is All About!! Did you really beat the better bowler???
Handicaps are like delusional thinking!! Your deluding yourself into believing you actually beat the guy that won! Lol….. LOL ()

[bowl1820]

A Simple solution is already in place If someone doesn't like handicap. They can Bowl in a scratch League.

It has always amazed me all the griping about handicap there is. Bowler's could easily bowl in a scratch league, nobody forces you to bowl in a handicap league or tournament, but they insist on doing it and then start griping.

"Oh there's no scratch league here, we'd like to have one, but the house won't do it" I bet if you went to the manager and said we enough people for X number of teams, they'd set up a league.

"there's no money in scratch" that might be true,but if your in it for the sport, money don't matter, but if your trying to get rich by bowling . It's not going to happen so don't worry about there being no money in it.

[MICHAEL]

A Simple solution is already in place If someone doesn't like handicap. They can Bowl in a scratch League.

It has always amazing me all the griping about handicap there is. Bowler's could easily bowl in a scratch league, nobody forces you to bowl in a handicap league or tournament, but they insist on doing it and then start griping.

"Oh there's no scratch league here, we'd like to have one, but the house won't do it" I bet if you went to the manager and said we enough people for X number of teams, they'd set up a league.

"there's no money in scratch" that might be true,but if your in it for the sport, money don't matter, but if your trying to get rich by bowling . It's not going to happen so don't worry about there being no money in it.

If your talking to me, bowling for money, YOUR talking to the wrong guy!! I bowl for what I think the true reason for bowling should be,,,( THE SPORT).

What I think is fair to bowlers is for the bowling establishments to put bowlers into maybe 3 catagories, low, average, and high scores!

Put your leagues togerther, by grouping players that havereasonably close averages!!

I will look for scratch leagues, thanks for the advise! I don't want ANY hand-me-downs! When a better man/woman beat's me,,, I am big enough to say, Great game, enjoyed watching you kick my butt!! But watch out,,, I am going to get YOU next time!!

Money, sandbagers, ect ect... no problem when you bowl scratch! I guess it was the way I was brought up! We will just have to agree to disagree!

I am on a handicap money 1000.00 14 week league, but If we win, ( my wife and Me) I will donate the money to charity!! I would not feel right taking it!!
ONLY reason I am on this handicap league is Dude talked me into to it, and we both wanted to see one another hit those goals,,,, 300,,, 700,, 800!

He, Dude, might even win the 1000.00. And if he does it will be without handicap, and I am sure he will keep the money with a clear consious!

[bowl1820]

If your talking to me, bowling for money, YOUR talking to the wrong guy!! I bowl for what I think the true reason for bowling should be,,,( THE SPORT).

No I'm not talking to you Mike, I'm just commenting on the general situation.

What I think is fair to bowlers is for the bowling establishments to put bowlers into maybe 3 catagories, low, average, and high scores!

Put your leagues togerther, by grouping players that havereasonably close averages!!

Okay "categories" in bowling those are called Division's and they have them.

Like in the National's tournament which has two divisions: Classified for
bowlers with 180 and under averages (360 combined doubles average, 900
combined team average) and Regular for bowlers with averages 181 and
higher.

You can set up a league with average-based divisions, so bowlers are matched up according to skill, not age or gender.


Here you want a fun format take a look at this.

Survivor

The "Survivor" league format is a unique, fun, versatile and competitive USBC Sport Bowling experience originated by Mark Robey at Skore Lanes in Taylor, Mich. The league's name and internal concepts are based on the popular network TV show of the same name. Survivor bowlers battle in a 14-week league that is comprised of individual match play competition, an individual stepladder tournament, team competition and a team tournament. Bowlers of any average can join Survivor; the league's unique format allows all bowlers to enjoy very competitive matches.



How does Survivor work?



For the first six weeks, individual bowlers battle in a head-to-head, three-game match. Points are awarded for each game won plus totals. Each week bowlers are separated into "tribes" based on their averages. Within each tribe, bowlers are ranked based on their individual winning percentages.



On the seventh week, bowlers compete in a match play tournament. Tribes hold match play competition to determine champions of each division, named for the four suits in a deck of playing cards. These four champions compete for the title of "Ultimate Survivor."



In preparation for the team competition, a draft is held. The leading average bowlers become team captains and draft fellow Survivors to make even teams for the team competitions.



In weeks eight through 13, the focus shifts to team play with Survivor bowlers on these drafted teams bowling for the right to win their portion of the team prize fund, and the title of Survivor Team Champion.



The 14th week is a Baker team tournament. This format calls for head-to-head competition among seeded teams with bowlers from each team alternating frames until the Ultimate Team Survivors are crowned

[Hampe]

What I think is fair to bowlers is for the bowling establishments to put bowlers into maybe 3 catagories, low, average, and high scores!

Put your leagues togerther, by grouping players that havereasonably close averages!!

This is how the "company sport" league I play in is, and it's one of the things I really like about it. There are 5 small 7-8 team leagues A-E. A is the best players and E is for the new guys and super casual bowlers. If you win your league one season, you move up to the next league, and the last place team from the league above moves down. This way you're always playing against people around your ability (well, your team's composite ability anyway).

The only thing I hate about the league (and I'm not the only one....I think it's going to be voted on this year if we remove it) is that there is an antiquated "women's handicap", where women get a 10 pin handicap regardless of ability. This means if you are 4 guys playing a team of 4 ladies (of the same ability level), you're down 40 pins each game right from the start! Lame!

[MICHAEL]

Survivor League


That looks like a Well thought out,,, FUN league!! I like that,,, I might take that system to our lanes, and see if their is interest, THANKS!

[MICHAEL]

This is how the "company sport" league I play in is, and it's one of the things I really like about it. There are 5 small 7-8 team leagues A-E. A is the best players and E is for the new guys and super casual bowlers. If you win your league one season, you move up to the next league, and the last place team from the league above moves down. This way you're always playing against people around your ability (well, your team's composite ability anyway).

The only thing I hate about the league (and I'm not the only one....I think it's going to be voted on this year if we remove it) is that there is an antiquated "women's handicap", where women get a 10 pin handicap regardless of ability. This means if you are 4 guys playing a team of 4 ladies (of the same ability level), you're down 40 pins each game right from the start! Lame!

Paul, that’s more to my liking then the standard handicap system used around here. I think creativity is what is needed to help rejuvenate the game! There are ways to create a level playing field, without giving pin’s to people that shouldn’t get them.
We have on our seniors league, a couple REALLY cool ladies in their mid 80’s. I enjoy watching them bowl very much. One throws a 6 lbs ball, and it sometimes takes 45 minutes for the ball to get down the lane, but you know what,,,,,,, when that damn ball gets there its almost always right on target!!!!!
Both of the ladies I am talking about are good bowlers,,,, ( not high scores, only due to the light balls they have to use now). Many a time they will hit that pocket PERFECT only to have the ball deviate due to being so light)
I think their averages are in the low 100’s , but again only because of light balls.
They are not bowling for money, but for the pure pleasure of bowling! They don’t care about handicap, they just enjoy having a great game with people they enjoy being around.
I am beginning to see that these thoughts of better systems have been well thought out already! Some I will look into, and see if there is any interest! Thanks for the INFO!

[MICHAEL]

It will have a huge bearing on your teams ability to FAIRLY play one another! It will all be dictated by what you decide at your First League Meeting! What is your leagues handicap, if any! I was on, and will be again this year an awesome team!

We would give up almost 300 pins to some teams, but in the end we almost always over came the handicap! We were in first from the beginning, and never lost it! At one point mid way through we had a 16 game lead!

My feeling is that a good team will always win out over a high handicap team, unless their is serious sandbagging on the team you are bowling.

What I have noticed is that sandbagging happens most often on high money leagues, where the top teams get most of the pot! I have, this last summer bowled on a Top Gun league, and did see first hand, sandbagging! It was a two person league, big bucks, almost all the bowers top guns. One example, happed with a female bowler throwing gutter balls toward then end of game 3, that they had won, to keep her average down! OOOOO , it was spare shots, but easy ones that she had not missed all night! So,,, it seems the high money leagues foster a lot of sand!!!

On the leagues where the money is evenly distributed, and the increments are not that much from top to bottom, much less Bowl-Baggers!!! lol

MY THOUGHTS HAVE evolved as you might notice since last year LOL funny the difference a year can make!! (

[swingset]

No handicaps are fair. Anything that gives someone points that they have not earned by scoring could be considered fair...unless the idea of "winning" is to give everyone a prize.

I understand why they exist, but "fairness" and handicaps don't belong in the same sentence.

[swingset]

A Simple solution is already in place If someone doesn't like handicap. They can Bowl in a scratch League.

It has always amazed me all the griping about handicap there is. Bowler's could easily bowl in a scratch league, nobody forces you to bowl in a handicap league or tournament, but they insist on doing it and then start griping.

"Oh there's no scratch league here, we'd like to have one, but the house won't do it" I bet if you went to the manager and said we enough people for X number of teams, they'd set up a league.

"there's no money in scratch" that might be true,but if your in it for the sport, money don't matter, but if your trying to get rich by bowling . It's not going to happen so don't worry about there being no money in it.

For some people, scratch leagues are almost impossible to join. I'm one of those people, I work night shift M-F and it's almost unheard of to have scratch leagues on weekends. The only one I've seen is for seniors, and I'm to young to join. There's simply no way to get the weeknight scratch bowlers to move to the weekends, or the weekend handicappers to drop that antiquated "I wanna win some money too" BS from the 1950's.

I don't like handicaps, but I have no choice. It's a silly outmoded crutch for a sport that helped people legitimize the gambling/purse aspect of a weekly league. Otherwise, it makes no sense and degrades the "sport" when players are punished for their skill, or artificially advanced because of their lack of it. And, I say that as a 190 average bowler who usually gets a little handicap. I never want it.

No other sport I've ever played included handicaps. Why would they? You're supposed to earn your score by actually scoring. The only exceptions are golf and bowling, both of which use handicaps to make the quasi-gambling more enticing.