negative attitudes on your team (LONG rant)

[panbanger]

When I started this league, I had no expectations at all. Being my first league in over 20 years combined with the fact that I’ve been throwing fingertip with a modern ball for less than a year, I just joined for an excuse to bowl at least once a week. I was placed on a team that needed another member since I knew nobody there.
My team has myself (190 average), another guy who averages about 200, and a husband and wife team who are there purely for fun. She averages 120 and he about 160.

Fast forward 15 weeks in to the season and we find ourselves in 2nd or 3rd place each week. Once in a while we are in first! I totally didn’t expect this. The top teams in our league are teams that consist of 3 scratch bowlers and one person with a handicap of maybe 30 or 40 pins (our league uses 80% of 200). But then there is my team, kind of the “one of these things is not like the other” in the standings lol.

So we reach the halfway point, which is position round. We bowl the first place team and we have our butt’s handed to us on a silver platter with French fried potatoes. On our team, who gets upset about this? Surprise, it’s the two people with the low averages. Never mind that he bowled a 120 and she bowled an 85 or so, they get really upset and have a terrible attitude about halfway through the 2nd game. So by the 3rd game, I just wanna get out of there.

The next week we are somehow still in the top 3 and we manage to go 2-2 that week. We manage by bowling around our average and the other team having a couple bad games. Then this past week, we lose all 4 to a team that’s around 12th place or so (league has 20 teams). The husband and wife team really take it hard as usual. I’m bowling decent but by the 3rd game again I just wanna get out of there.

My point is that I really don’t care if we win or lose. And that was the attitude that the whole team had, until we started winning! And the people who care about winning the most are the people who bowl the worst! ARGH! I actually hope that we drop down a few spots over the next few weeks just to avoid the negative attitudes. Next week we are bowling the 2nd place team (we should be in 4th place I think) and they have 3 scratch bowlers. I would be amazed if we win one game. But the worst part is – I’m thinking of pre-bowling just to avoid the 2 people on my team pouting over our loss.

This is a long rant with no real questions for anyone. But…anyone have anything similar to share? I’m hoping this is just a case of having a couple bad weeks, and our team probably over-achieved in the first half of the season anyway. Now to be fair the husband / wife team aren’t just 2 awful bowlers – he sometimes rolls a 200 or so which is a big boost to the pin total when you average 160. The wife I kind of feel sorry for because the husband will often give her pointers between frames: hold your fingers this way, aim for this arrow etc. She’s there to socialize and have fun above anything else. Which is fine! I just have a thing about giving other bowlers pointers during league especially when they don’t ask for it.

Ok end of rant.

[scottymoney]

Being on a throw together team it has to be tough. As long as they aren't complaining about your game then just ignore them and bowl. If they are so hell bent on winning they need to "put up or shut up", they help the team out with high handicaps but that doesn't help if they can bowl their own averages.

In this situation I would bowl out the season and hope you find a few people around the alley to jump ship and make a new team. Looks like you may only need 2 people as the other guy seems to bowl well and hopefully has no ties to the couple.

[J Anderson]

There are a number of ways to have a negative attitude. One of my teammates back in the 70s would start predicting our defeat in the ninth frame of almost every game, especially if we were ahead. It didn't matter if we were one mark up or ten marks up, Tut would start muttering that we were going to get beaten. The rest of the team was used to this and just ignored it. I think he was just trying to keep the pressure on himself to finish the game strong.

There is a person in this same league who was one of the higher average bowlers back then who is driving his current teammate crazy. He still uses the same technique that he used back in the early 80s. Age has robbed him of what ever speed he had so his ball rolls out 6 to 10 feet before reaching the pins at a speed of 9 to 10 mph. He was never great at making the 10pin and now he's even worse and the 6 pin is doubtful. His teammate will make suggestions about how to make it, and the reply is always "I can't".

The third is the case of self-fulfilling prophesy. I once got an e-mail from a teammate 2 or 3 days before league explaining in detail why he wouldn't be bowing well that week. Needles to say he was 35 pins under average the first game, only hit his average the last game and was a total of 42 under for the night.

[e-tank]

My gf throws a straight ball and will try and blame it on the ball for the reason why its not going straight even though i her than shes throwing it across her body and thats the problem

Other league member will complain that her ball wont strike yet she refuses to adjust anything about her game

[Perrin]

You guys are making me feel really lucky with the throw together team I got put on this year.
me (185 in this league) and then the other guy (~125-130) Girl 1 (~105) and girl 2 (~90-95)

They are all constantly asking for advice and pointers on how to improve and they all have a great attitude about the game.

[scottymoney]

You guys are making me feel really lucky with the throw together team I got put on this year.
me (185 in this league) and then the other guy (~125-130) Girl 1 (~105) and girl 2 (~90-95)

They are all constantly asking for advice and pointers on how to improve and they all have a great attitude about the game.

Attitude is the one thing in bowling that separates people. As long as they show up and are having fun that is what counts. When people ask for help you know they are truly interested and want to get better. I bet you guys carry a pretty big handicap in your league?

[10-in-the-pit]

Yeah, since you don't know them, just ignore them. You can begin working on setting up your own team or joining someone else's. You can try to stay away from them so you don't have to hear their comments, but you're pretty much stuck with what you have.

[wimsical]

I actually have a bit of a problem staying positive if I'm playing bad, though I'm not very loud about it I'm fairly certain it shows on my face and I tend to become a lot more quiet (and I'm not the big talker on the team to begin with). Having said that, I never get angry at other people if they're not playing good and I don't really care if we win, because we play with a fairly low average team in a scratch league.

[Perrin]

Attitude is the one thing in bowling that separates people. As long as they show up and are having fun that is what counts. When people ask for help you know they are truly interested and want to get better. I bet you guys carry a pretty big handicap in your league?

yeah one of the biggest in the league. Handicap is based on team average rather than individual though. To prevent 3 scratch bowlers from grabbing a low average player just for handicap. (them being over the scratch bowling mark will actually take handicap away from the handicap bowler) Unusual system but it works well for this league. (more about fun than bowling honor scores :))

[panbanger]

yeah one of the biggest in the league. Handicap is based on team average rather than individual though. To prevent 3 scratch bowlers from grabbing a low average player just for handicap. (them being over the scratch bowling mark will actually take handicap away from the handicap bowler) Unusual system but it works well for this league. (more about fun than bowling honor scores :))

I like the sound of that system!

[panbanger]

Being on a throw together team it has to be tough. As long as they aren't complaining about your game then just ignore them and bowl. If they are so hell bent on winning they need to "put up or shut up", they help the team out with high handicaps but that doesn't help if they can bowl their own averages.

In this situation I would bowl out the season and hope you find a few people around the alley to jump ship and make a new team. Looks like you may only need 2 people as the other guy seems to bowl well and hopefully has no ties to the couple.

I know the other guy bowls the summer leauge also - I've heard him mention it before. Towards the end of the season I'll probably see if he wants to start a team with a couple other people :D

[Davec13]

We have a guy on our Friday team who has become a real pain. He bowled his first ever 600 and has become a "professional". No matter what if we are winning or losing he has to comment on everything. He bowled a few pins over his 162 average and all of a sudden we are winning because he is bowling so well. He didn't take into account everyone else was 10-20+ pins over their average. If he is bowling off we get the "you'll guys will have to do better because I won the last game for us" speech. He actually was trying to give a guy pointers who had just rolled a 297 and has a 215 average. Everyone is sick of him, but he just doesn't get it. I just try my best to deal with it, but sometimes it's overwhelming hearing him, so in go the headphones.

[billf]

We have a guy on our Monday Mens league who drives us so nuts that the other four of us decided to replace him next season. It's a shame because he has been on the team for years. His issue? When he is bowling bad he will just start chucking it any where and every where. One game he purposely tried sandbagging to get a triplicate even dumping it in the gutter in the ninth frame. That game we lost by 3 pins. I was furious. Sorry but I'm from the always try your hardest school and would never have purposely let my team down.

His replacement actually has a lower average but a better attitude. We finished in second last season and won the first half this season. When we are loose and having fun we are very good as a team. Then every now and then this guy just will pick a table way in the back all by himself. Also, even when at the table with the team, we have to constantly remind him when it's his turn as he is usually texting on his phone.

[panbanger]

If he is bowling off we get the "you'll guys will have to do better because I won the last game for us" speech.

Oh wow that sucks. Luckily that doesnt happen on my team. We are quick to give credit to the person who bowled above their average to give us the win, but yeah that's a d!ck move right there.

[panbanger]

Also, even when at the table with the team, we have to constantly remind him when it's his turn as he is usually texting on his phone.

There are a few people like that in my league, but luckily not very many. I admit I'll send a couple texts through the course of the night, but it's to my girlfriend if she isn't there. It's usually me letting her know how it's going. Things like "we lost the first game, time to release the Kraken" funny things like that lol

To me one of the best things about a league is that as a society I think we get more and more of our entertainment and recreation these days in our homes. In the past it was the opposite - you ate meals at home and went out for recreation and entertainment. Now it seems like we eat from restaurants and have entertainment centers and theater rooms etc. at home. A bowling league at its' very least gets you human contact with other like minded people...something that seems to be slipping away over the last couple/three decades.

Wow I got philosophical there! :cool:

[scottymoney]

I admit I'll send a couple texts through the course of the night, but it's to my girlfriend if she isn't there. It's usually me letting her know how it's going. Things like "we lost the first game, time to release the Kraken" funny things like that lol

The only time I text during league is to my wife to tell her how my scores are and how we are doing. I normally get back texts form her like "what happened" or "wow". I normally respond with some funny also. Like I told her once that I bowled crappy because the one guy on my team Jim forgot to wear his suspenders. And yes I do have a guy on my team that bowls in suspenders, he averages around 200 with them on and probably loses a few pins when he forgets!


I am glad my team has a great attitude, even when we are bowling bad we still laugh and have a good time. Competition is one thing, but being ruthless and getting upset about it is another.

[Tampabaybob]

Panbanger.....These people are in the wrong league. They should be in a regular couples mixed league and use that as a nite out and stop being so serious. After all, most leagues like that will not make you rich, even if you win the whole enchilada. From what you said about several of the teams having high average bowlers, they're definitely in the wrong league.

As in most leagues we also have had bowlers that did not "conform" to what we thought was either good sportsmanship or was just a freakin' pain. The way you get rid of someone like that is to "tell them" next year "We will be adding a new team member, so you might want to start looking for a new team to bowl on next season". Period. If they don't like that, tough....let them be someone else's problem next year. Our league has a $59,000.00 prize fund and I'll guess most of the teams although very competitive, enjoy their night out. Sure everybody loves to win, but they forget someone has to also lose.

[panbanger]

Panbanger.....These people are in the wrong league. They should be in a regular couples mixed league and use that as a nite out and stop being so serious. After all, most leagues like that will not make you rich, even if you win the whole enchilada. From what you said about several of the teams having high average bowlers, they're definitely in the wrong league.



In the first week, when I got placed with them, they basically said that this was their night out and they weren't there to be too serious about it. But after a few weeks of winning it seemed to change lol! Hopefully things will go back to normal after we drop a couple spots :)

[xthe_charismatic_enigmax]

@TampaBayBob -- I want to be a part of your league. >.>

Anyway. When I started bowling again, I just got thrown onto a team. And that team, I didn't realize would consist of one of my closer friends, and a couple in which I would meet some more people when I bowled with his Dad and our friend Larry Thursday nights in the Summer. A lot of the people in our alley are pretty serious (I bowl in one of the bigger alleys in the South Central PA area.) So, I've seen people punch holes ball returns, kick ball returns, break the score panel, chuck balls from the bowling area at the racks where people walk and the such, people throwing wrist supports, etc. My Monday night team, I really, really, really like. The 60 year old guy on our team carries a 184 avg, the two women on my team carry a 150ish and 160ish average and then I bring up the anchor spot with my 216, it seems like we're always giving up pins...and when the game is on the line, I tell myself that we're down by 40 pins and that gives me the motivation to strike out and clinch things..and I've been in that position a lot this year..and I've only screwed up once..throwing a gutter ball, which resulted in a five pin loss, and the other night, threw a 4-6 in the 10th and we lost by 20 some pins. My Tuesday night team is alright, I'm with two couples on the team, next year I'll probably start a team..and Thursday night, I'm on a decent team..but the combination doesn't work..I'm probably going to be on a different team next year with my friend I talked about earlier..where we're going to have three guys' constantly fighting for the anchor spot on the team. I don't get mad persay..I get frustrated with myself when I'm not doing well, because I'm not making the right decisions, and that's when I start taking walks and stuff like that..because someone said to me a long time ago when they saw me punch something..they pretty much asked me if I knew how much of a, lack of better terms here, jerk I looked like when I did that..soooooo..I broke the habit of it..

[ZRock]

My team is exactly like this. I have the 35 year old who was a 200 avg bowler in his 20s and can't do it anymore. He carries a 170 average, then gets extremely mad when he shoots his average.... Really frustrating.

[crimsoneyes]

I bowl on a mixed doubles league and none of are very good. the girls are at about 120 and us guys have myself at 165 and the other at 169. The other guy bowls a couple other nights a week and holds 190 both night at a different house. For a few weeks he would complain about how terrible the house we bowl at is and how the other place has such better scores. Well I ended up chatting with the owner of the other house he bowls at and he told me that they switched patterns to promote higher scoring.

So the nest time the other guy on my team complained i flipped out on him and said that I could replace him in about 10 minutes and if he didn't wanna bowl with us to just say so. He hasnt said word since but the past 3 weeks he has been showing up to bowl **** drunk. He threw a 360 series last week.

I'm gonna tough it out this year and then my wife and i will find a new couple to bowl with for next year.

[billf]

My team is exactly like this. I have the 35 year old who was a 200 avg bowler in his 20s and can't do it anymore. He carries a 170 average, then gets extremely mad when he shoots his average.... Really frustrating.


Most bowlers don't hit their prime until their mid 30s or early 40s. Sounds more like he never really had it to lose but was rather the by-product if a high scoring oil pattern.

[Tampabaybob]

Crimson....... Yeah thats a tough position to be in. I've been in similar situations before and it makes the season seem much longer than it is. We just had a situation on our team with a guy not paying. Our league rules are, if a guy owes 3 weeks and doesn't pay up, he doesn't bowl until he does pay up. Our guy, and we didn't know at the beginning of the season, was unemployed. Not only that he was "bowling in 4 leagues!" Well, needless to say he doesn't bowl with us any longer. May people don't realize when they join a bowling team, that the league has to sign a contract that guarantees payment for each league bowler every night of the season and that it's a responsibility of each bowler to pay each night. It's a commitment, and people have to understand that.

[ArtVandelay]

Its funny because my team goes out of its way to not be serious (we named our team Bowl Job...) but we had some success and it does change things. Thankfully we were still laid back and never got upset or angry, but i did notice we started looking at other scores and calculating pins and probabilities... Now that we have slipped into 4th, theres a little disappointment but I think our priorities are in order...

Where abouts in DFW are you? Im north DFW, denton area. Shoot me a PM. I might be looking to pick up an extra league night this summer for practice. If you dont mind that Im crazy laid back and really dont care about most things, we might have to look into a team of some sort.

[ZRock]

Most bowlers don't hit their prime until their mid 30s or early 40s. Sounds more like he never really had it to lose but was rather the by-product if a high scoring oil pattern.

Why do you say this? I would imagine most people that average in the 200s with a heavy cranker style couldn't hold up once they hit mid 30s...

[billf]

Most crankers turn to tweeners and then enjoy their most successive years. Look at the ages of winners from regionals to majors the last 60 years. That's why I say it. It seems to be the point where the mental and physical games match. The physical drops slightly as the mental goes way up.

[ZRock]

Interesting point. Guess I should just quit for 15 years then come back then.

[J Anderson]

Interesting point. Guess I should just quit for 15 years then come back then.

Doesn't work that way. The 15 years of beating your head against the wall is part of the process. "You got to pay your dues if you want to sing the Blues", and you have to fail a few times to learn how to win.

[panbanger]

Well I saw a big improvement in attitude tonight. Before we even started we looked at the standings and they remarked at how they're used to being at the bottom of the list and that we're really doing good. We're in 4th place and about 10 games out of first. So we had a fun relaxing night. And we won 3 out of the 4 which was a nice bonus!

The worst part of the night is that I see that we're back on lanes 1-2 next week. That will be our 3rd trip to those lanes in the last 6 weeks! For some reason I dont like bowling on either the first or the last lane.

[unclemantis]

Well I saw a big improvement in attitude tonight. Before we even started we looked at the standings and they remarked at how they're used to being at the bottom of the list and that we're really doing good. We're in 4th place and about 10 games out of first. So we had a fun relaxing night. And we won 3 out of the 4 which was a nice bonus!

The worst part of the night is that I see that we're back on lanes 1-2 next week. That will be our 3rd trip to those lanes in the last 6 weeks! For some reason I dont like bowling on either the first or the last lane.

It's not you. There is just something about having a wall at one side that is.destracting.

[scottymoney]

It's not you. There is just something about having a wall at one side that is.destracting.

I have thrown my best games on the end of the alleys. I guess for some it makes a difference, but me I like the end, maybe the fact nobody is to my one side is less of a distraction. Not sure why.


As far as bowlers getting better in their 30's and 40's, I think it is true. I am 30 now, but combining knowledge that I am finally putting together with forgetting about throwing the ball so hard has helped. In your teens and 20's you think differently. You think about throwing it as hard as you can and not so much about angles and carry and how revs and speed need to match.

Bowling is so much more of a mental game than a physical one, and until you realize it you will struggle to put a consistent game together. I have a couple guys who are a bit younger than me that struggle and I tell them they need to make a few changes, but they don't listen. One day hopefully the light will go off and they will get it, and maybe they will say that "hey Scott was right".

[unclemantis]

I have thrown my best games on the end of the alleys. I guess for some it makes a difference, but me I like the end, maybe the fact nobody is to my one side is less of a distraction. Not sure why.


As far as bowlers getting better in their 30's and 40's, I think it is true. I am 30 now, but combining knowledge that I am finally putting together with forgetting about throwing the ball so hard has helped. In your teens and 20's you think differently. You think about throwing it as hard as you can and not so much about angles and carry and how revs and speed need to match.

Bowling is so much more of a mental game than a physical one, and until you realize it you will struggle to put a consistent game together. I have a couple guys who are a bit younger than me that struggle and I tell them they need to make a few changes, but they don't listen. One day hopefully the light will go off and they will get it, and maybe they will say that "hey Scott was right".

I am currently using an Android app called Strike Out Stats. After each shot I enter the pins I knocked down. I can also enter what house i bowled at as well as the ball used and the lane i bowled on and the oil pattern. it is really a nice app!

[RoccoRock]

You talk about negative attitude, I have a teammate who had the worst attitude I've ever seen. Worst part, he's a good friend, and I can't kick him off the team. I have a scratch bowler, a guy who could have joined the PBA tour if he wanted, all ready to go to take his place on my team. The guy who is on the team, he had quit during league night more than once. He was having a bad night a few months ago, and during the second game I approached him. He was losing his match, which is worth one point, but we had a shot to win the game, which would have been worth 4 points. I said to him "I know your not doing well, but I need you. I need you to get every pin you can, because we are only down by less than 10 pins." He said to me "I don't care about the team, I want to win my game." I was stunned. That made up my mind, if he's on the team next season, I will not be. Even though at times I suck, I try to help my team if I can. Last week, we were in trouble, we had lost both games, and most of the matches. In the last game, the opposing team only had the anchor left, and we had our 3 and 4 (me) left. I was having an awful night, I mean historically bad. I was all set that in the 10th I was going to take my spare ball, and fire it dead straight at 25mph. Then our 3 bowler stepped up, and struck out the 10th. That meant the game was on the line in the 10th. So what did I do, being the good teammate I am? I scrapped my plan, took out the ball i had the most confidence in, did what I know I am good at, and threw 2 great shots. X, and a shaking 10 pins, which unfortunately I missed. The opposing anchor is the best bowler in the league, and he needed 9/ X to win by one pin. He did exactly that. However I was able to hold my head high because I didn't quit on my team, no matter how mad I was. I did my best when my team needed me, that's all I ask of my fellow teammates. If they can't give that to me, good luck to them as I bowl on another team

[billf]

I bowl anchor and am team captain on two of my leagues. Any time I get a split (other than a baby) I ask if they want me to go for pin count or go for the conversion. I then go with the consensus.
The first time I asked on a 7-10 a couple of guys on the other team started laughing and talking trash. I should have just shot the 7 for count but it upset my teammates. To a man they said go for it. The other teams anchor bet me $50 I wouldn't make it. 28.6 mph later we won by 12 pins and I was $50 richer. I'm 3 for 8 this season on 7-10 splits during league.

[unclemantis]

I bowl anchor and am team captain on two of my leagues. Any time I get a split (other than a baby) I ask if they want me to go for pin count or go for the conversion. I then go with the consensus.
The first time I asked on a 7-10 a couple of guys on the other team started laughing and talking trash. I should have just shot the 7 for count but it upset my teammates. To a man they said go for it. The other teams anchor bet me $50 I wouldn't make it. 28.6 mph later we won by 12 pins and I was $50 richer. I'm 3 for 8 this season on 7-10 splits during league.

Congratulations Bill!

[billf]

Thank you. I actually practice this split during the summer months are part of my spare shooting practice.

[unclemantis]

Thank you. I actually practice this split during the summer months are part of my spare shooting practice.

7-10 conversion is very impressive

[WolfGirl1980]

I actually have a bit of a problem staying positive if I'm playing bad, though I'm not very loud about it I'm fairly certain it shows on my face and I tend to become a lot more quiet (and I'm not the big talker on the team to begin with). Having said that, I never get angry at other people if they're not playing good and I don't really care if we win, because we play with a fairly low average team in a scratch league.

I am the same way although recently I been trying very hard to stay positive, I'm just not a very talkative person until you get to know me especially during bowling cause I am really in my head focusing on my next shot and what I got to do to make that shot successful. Sometimes I am aware of whats going on around me. I usually pay attention to the score board if we winning losing who is up what we doing a lot to keep track of and a lot of things all going on all at once and I get confused easily, unless I stay focused. But I do have a guy in my league who punches the ball return on my team when he misses his spare and when he does get a strike he shows off doing this hawk thing kinda like the crane technique from the Karate Kid, and he also after the end of the season was over told the team captain Edna that him and his wife was gonna bowl on her team next year kicking me and mom off Edna's team but Edna stuck up for us and said she that me and my mom were going to bowl next fall/winter and he can bowl if he wanted to but there was no room for his wife so and the main thing about it is he didn't even bother to ask Edna he just came out and said to her me and my wife are gonna bowl on your team next fall like a demand or something except he wasn't team captain and we got another anchor if he don't wanna bowl with us next year because we don't have room for his wife my dad will bowl with us cause I think he gonna put his other knee off till later cause he has a worn out knee, its bone on bone, he has no cartilage left in it, he needs a knee replacement he had one in one knee now he needs the other knee done. But that what happening in my league anyway.

Sara

[bowlerRob2]

I love your story (the original post) because it mirrors my fall season almost exactly. Except the team I was "thrown on" did not consist of bowlers who were that good. My reasons for joining the league were about the same as yours: To get back into the game, get an established sanctioned average, and get back into the local league scene. The best tip I can give you is bamboozle with people on the other teams as much as possible. Each week you meet a different team until you cycle through them so why not strike conversations with them? You can also figure out the "league politics" this way and that can help you meet friends and like minded individuals whom you might want to team up with later on (or next Fall).

[classygranny]

What do you do when the "bowling jerk" is your husband? He gets so frustrated at himself and tends to be a bit vocal (sometimes in language not becoming) and calls himself names, etc. He never really takes it out on anyone else, but it's frustrating to me knowing that other bowlers think he's a "jerk". Funny thing, it's only in bowling that I see this side of him....never, ever in any other situation. I try and push the "positive thinking", the deep breath, shake-it-off, but sometimes just staying quite seems to be best for myself. I wish I had someway of making him realize that he is only making himself look bad and probably not helping his bowling at all.

[TCJ]

Make a video tape of him, then watch it when you get home. :D

[classygranny]

Make a video tape of him, then watch it when you get home. :D

Great idea...but maybe I'll just email it to him the next morning. :(