No Smoking at the Bowling Alley!

[kakcpa]

I am very disappointed that the State of Michigan could not pass the public no smoking law. It has been tossed around for 2 years now. The casinos in the Detroit area wanted to be exempt, claiming that they would lose too much business to the Indian Casinos, even though the nearest one is over 125 Miles away at Mt. Pleasant. I find it hard to believe that someone wanting to gamble would drive 250 miles round trip to go to a casino just because they could smoke there, but stranger things have happened. The lawmakers knew that what their constituents want, but gave into the Casino Lobby, as well as the Restaurant Lobby. A deal could not be made, and because of this, the legislation did not pass, and the bill fizzled out, leaving us non-smokers to keep on suffering breathing in 2nd hand smoke. Unfortunately, for me, the choice is put up with it, or don't bowl. Well, I just can't give up bowling anymore, so I have to put up with it. It seems that the majority of my league smokes. The bowling proprietor is scared to death of no smoking passing, as he's afraid it will cut into his business, as he is hanging on by a thread right now. Times are not good in Michigan.

I'm just curious if you live in a state where there was once smoking, and now, because of a law, there is no smoking, how did the change over go? Have bowling alleys lost business because people cannot smoke there any more? If you are a smoker, what did you think about not being able to smoke while bowling any further? Do you have to duck outside in between games?

[NoTapNorm]

Ohio passed the no smoking resolution a couple years ago. Restaurants were terrified that they would lose business, but after the institution of the law, some businesses actually did better. Back in the 90's I worked at a center, and I could be the only one in the building at opening, be there 15 minutes and have to change clothes because the building was saturated. Now with the no smoking, everything is more enjoyable.
I was at bd's Mongolian Grille in Sterling Heights on Wednesday, and a guy lit up about 20 feet away. It was amazing that the smell of one person smoking affected the surrounding area so much.

We have a few teams in the league that have to go out between each game and get a smoke, and they are usually some of the last teams done also.

Ohio is having enforcement issues of the law. At first, family businesses were exempt, but now they're not. Private clubs (vfw, amvets, etc) are trying to get an exemption to the law. The enforcement issues arent being addressed as there's not enough personnel to address the situations.

[ArtVandelay]

In Texas, it's done on the city level. In Austin, there's no smoking in any public building at all, bars and clubs included. Denton doesn't have that regulation. Neither does Euless, which is where I bowl.

I am a smoker, but not a heavy one. My problem is it's more out of habit. When I bowl, I smoke. Before I go into work, I smoke, at lunch I smoke, before I go in the house at home, I smoke. I normally smoke 3 cigarettes a day, but it jumps to about 7 or 8 on a bowling night.

It's mental.

[Baroncad]

In Texas, it's done on the city level. In Austin, there's no smoking in any public building at all, bars and clubs included. Denton doesn't have that regulation. Neither does Euless, which is where I bowl.

I am a smoker, but not a heavy one. My problem is it's more out of habit. When I bowl, I smoke. Before I go into work, I smoke, at lunch I smoke, before I go in the house at home, I smoke. I normally smoke 3 cigarettes a day, but it jumps to about 7 or 8 on a bowling night.

It's mental.

The City of Houston also a no smoking policy for all public buildings and most of Harris County has adopted this policy. Of the 4 houses I've bowled at 3 are "Non-Smoking" and the fourth has taken all the hard core smokers from the other three. So this no smoking ban has impacted two houses very hard, only one house has attracted enough non-smokers to make up for the lost people on two of their four big leagues.

I have come to enjoy not bowling in a smoke filled house and having to take a shower as soon as I come home, because the stench on your clothes is unbearable.

[Bob66]

We don't have a no smoking law, and sorry if I offend but I wish we did. I have never smoked but do enjoy the smoke free leagues and as others said it is nice to be able to breath and to not stink when I come home. I also have a second reason and that is that I have lost 3 family members to cance from smoking and 1 was from second hand smoke. I know it is tough to change but can a few hours matter?

[TWIXT&TWEENER]

If it bothers your nose to be on a smoking league, form your own league. I am on a non-alcoholic league and no one drinks. Our league, our rule.

It has not been proven that second hand smoke causes health problems. "Facts" have been fabricated by greedy attourneys and politicians. Look at the billions they have made after these so called findings. Why don't they outlaw the stuff if it is so dangerous? Billions and Billions of dollars, that's why! If they can keep the population duped, it facilitates keeping their hands in the pockets of big tobacco companies.


The new study by the British Medical Journal, shows no measurable rates of heart disease or lung cancer among nonsmokers who ever lived with smokers, and reports only a slight increased risk of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Many health agencies, including the U.S. Surgeon General's Office, have long said that secondhand smoke boosts the risk of heart disease by about 30% and lung cancer risk by 25% in nonsmokers.

"We found no measurable effect from being exposed to secondhand smoke and an increased risk of heart disease or lung cancer in nonsmokers -- not at any time or at any level," lead researcher James Enstrom, PhD, MPH, of the UCLA School of Public Health, tells WebMD. "The only thing we did find, which was not reported in the study, is that nonsmokers who live with smokers have a increased risk of widowhood because their smoking spouses do die prematurely."

[TWIXT&TWEENER]

I like the caves here as well. I don't smoke in restraunts, others autos, homes, nor around children or in my own home. I would not have an issue whatsoever if all public places went non-smoking. I do, however, have an issue with people who spout "facts" which have no more truth to them than the man on the moon. Yea, it stinks. It is a bad habit and does have long lasting health effects on the user. Yet, it is of course, a huge cash cow for all who jump on the bandwagon.

You know Kitty, there are 8 houses in my area (within 30 miles), only one allows smoking. It is no more proximate to anything more than any of the rest. However there are more non-smokers and smokers who bowl here, by far. Choice.

[TWIXT&TWEENER]

Nuttin' personel Kev.

[ThongPrincess]

Facts from the American Lung Association that say second hand smoke is a danger to the health of non-smokers.


September 2008

What Is Secondhand Smoke?

Secondhand smoke is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. Secondhand smoke contains more than 250 chemicals known to be toxic or cancer causing, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic, ammonia, and hydrogen cyanide.1

Secondhand smoke is also called environmental tobacco smoke (ETS); exposure to secondhand smoke is called involuntary smoking, or passive smoking.2

It is not easy to avoid secondhand smoke because about one in five people smoke.3 The following list shows how secondhand smoke is harmful to yourself and your family.

The Dangers of Secondhand Smoke:

Secondhand smoke causes about 3,400 deaths each year from lung cancer in non-smokers.4
Secondhand smoke causes irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat.5
Secondhand smoke can also irritate the lungs, leading to coughing, excessive phlegm, wheezing and breathlessness.6
Secondhand smoke has been estimated to cause 46,000 (ranging from 22,700 to 69,600) deaths per year from heart disease in adult nonsmokers.7

Secondhand Smoke Especially Hurts Children!

Children who breathe secondhand smoke are more likely to suffer from pneumonia, bronchitis, and other lung diseases.8

Children who breathe secondhand smoke have more ear infections.9

Children who have asthma and who breathe secondhand smoke have more asthma attacks.10

Babies whose mothers smoke while they are pregnant or who are exposed to secondhand smoke after birth are at a greater risk for SIDS, or Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.11

There are an estimated 790,000 visits to health care providers for ear infections and over 202,000 asthma attacks in children with asthma caused by secondhand smoke exposure.12

Sources:
1. U.S Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke. A Report of the Surgeon General, 2006. Children are Hurt by Secondhand Smoke Factsheet. January 4, 2007. Available here. Accessed on July 30, 2008
2. American Cancer Society. Secondhand Smoke. October 25, 2007. Available here. Accessed on July 30, 2008.
3. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. National Center for Health Statistics. National Health Interview Survey, 2006. Analysis by the American Lung Association, Research and Program Services Division using SPSS and SUDAAN software.
4. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
5. Ibid.
6. U.S Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke. A Report of the Surgeon General, 2006. There is No Risk-Free Level of Exposure to Secondhand Smoke Factsheet. January 4, 2007. Available here. Accessed on July 30, 2008.
7. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
8. U.S Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke. A Report of the Surgeon General, 2006. Children are Hurt by Secondhand Smoke Factsheet. January 4, 2007. Available here. Accessed on July 30, 2008.
9. Ibid.
10. Ibid.
11. Ibid.
12. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
13. U.S Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke. A Report of the Surgeon General, 2006. How to Protect Yourself and Your Loved Ones from Secondhand Smoke. January 4, 2007. Available here. Accessed on July 30,2008.


It was also reported on the news this past week that there has been a 40% reduction of heart disease in states with no smoking bans in place. The specified one state in particular, but I can't recall which one.

To answer the original question, CA has been no smoking for a very long time. When the ban first came it was simply to have smoking and non-smoking sections. This didn't really work because unless the areas were closed off from each other, the smoke free area was not really smoke free. At the bowling centers I bowled in, they made the lane area smoke free and smoking was allowed in the bar/lounge area.

When the stricter ban was passed, many threatened to leave and quit bowling. While some did, they were replaced by new bowlers who took up the spots in league because they could bowl without smelling like and ashtray when they got home. Eventually most of the ones who quit came back. Smokers have learned how to get in their smokes outside between frames or games. Most run out after their 10th frame and have a quick smoke. I honestly did not hear of any business going under because of the ban.

[NoTapNorm]

Headline in the last week on msnbc.com

States with smoking ban report fewer heart attacks.

[kakcpa]

Watch this, you just have to sit back and laugh at how backward society was back then, and how strong the tobacco industry was. Yes, smoking ads were prevalent up until the late 60s/early 70s until congress banned them. I'm surprised that there's still commercials for beer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMzjJjuxQI

then there was this one, paid for by Chesterfield Cigs, basically saying it's ok to smoke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyhvHB62ph8&feature=related

[Jord_84]

We've had the smoking ban in place for a little over a year here in Illinois. While I do agree that it's nice being able to bowl without having to breathe in all that smoke, it's hurting our business here, not so much in the bowling center, but our bar business is dying. My town is about 30 minutes from the Illinois/Wisconsin border....and when people around here want to drink, they head into WI because they don't have a smoking ban. All of the bars here are hurting.

[The KingPin]

We've had the smoking ban in place for a little over a year here in Illinois. While I do agree that it's nice being able to bowl without having to breathe in all that smoke, it's hurting our business here, not so much in the bowling center, but our bar business is dying. My town is about 30 minutes from the Illinois/Wisconsin border....and when people around here want to drink, they head into WI because they don't have a smoking ban. All of the bars here are hurting.


Here in Colorado we have some casinos that have all been forced to have a smoking ban. It is KILLING business. People want to smoke, drink, and be merry. It is a tough thing for many places.

[StrikeEmUp]

Here in Canada the smoking ban has been in place for a few years and there was a drop in business at first but it seems to have picked up. It is good for the community as a whole to have smoke free places, but in the same breath if cigarettes are legal then instead of outright banning them they should restrict smoking to smoking rooms. So if you are banning smoking in public places perhaps they should just make cigarettes illegal!

[jim hargraves]

I am from Nevada and there is no smoking in the alleys and Cafes and it has went very well no drop in bowling Because they cant smoke
Jim hargarves

[The KingPin]

Should smoking in bowling alleys be allowed on certain days to allow centers to make money from smokers too?

[Jord_84]

my mom is checking into putting a display case of "e-cigarettes" in the bar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-cigarette

I'm looking into getting one myself. They're approved for indoor use in Illinois because they don't cause any second hand smoke.
basically it's a heating element that evaporates a propylene glycol / nicotine (optional) solution, and the vapor is inhaled. No tar or other additives.

I've been looking to quit for a long time, but I really do enjoy smoking, not necessarily for the taste or the nicotine...but it's relaxing to me...plus it's hard not to smoke at the bar or some other social settings. The e-cigarette allows you to lower your nicotine intake, and then eliminate it completely if you choose.

Plus they come in assorted flavors! hehe

[janbolen]

Our bowling alley has a no smoking only on Sundays.. I wish it was everyday though.. I don't like taking my son to the bowling alley and exposing him to smoke.. Every since he was born I have done my best to keep him away from Second hand smoke..
I hate to say it, but some of my family members that smoke don't have any respect for the non-smokers and the effect the second hand smoke have on our children.. My niece and nephews suffer from really bad breathing problems, because of them being around second hand smoke.. I just don't want my son to go through that.. My son likes to go to the bowling alley, but I only take him on Sundays, and during the day when it's not busy..

[bowl1820]

my mom is checking into putting a display case of "e-cigarettes" in the bar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-cigarette

Funny a guy on my team was talking about those tonight. A new hi-tech drug delivery system. Though I think there was something similar to them years ago.

One thing smokers don't have to worry about is they'll never be illegal. The government makes too much tax money off them.

[Sue Morovits]

I bowl at different centers here in Madison Wi one has smoking in the alley area one does not its only allowed in the bar area. When I do my bowling on Monday nights as well as going there any other time with my disable son whom loves to bowl and really can not do anything else its great not to come home smelling like smoke. And my son is able to go. Now on Friday nights for couples oh my god sometimes it gets really bad not enough ventilation and its a small area and older bowling alley. In Madison there is no smoking in any buildings or businesses and guess what some of the bars are so busy theres no parking so the no smoking has not hurt businesses like they thought NOW dane county has passed a no smoking ban so the friday night bowling area (VERONA) had to do there own and as of Aug there will be no smoking in any place so now if I have to bring my son due to no sitter I can bring him and due to his health it wont be an issue anymore.
My thoughts are bowling is a family type recreation and the children shouldnt have to breath the air filled with smoke and that is what Ten Pin Alley thought so that is why there alley is nonsmoking and no one seems to be bothered by that they haven't lost any business.

just my thoughts

[joebowler]

I just wish people would quit whining 'bout those who smoke! I use to smoke, but quit. I believe that it was the best thing I ever did, but it doesn't bother me when people do. I bowl at three different house's and only one allows smoking. I think that the only thing a smoking ban does is cost people their business's I agree that it's bad for the health of those that do, but I don't think that gives anybody the right to take that choice just to satisfy their disgust of it. How's about we ban makeup as I believe that when you apply makeup it can't be good for your skin by applying something that clog's up your pores!! I think it should be the choice of the owner of the business weather they want to go non-smoking or not. That way smokers can bowl where they allow smoking and non-smokers can bowl where they don't! But some will never be happy till they have their way!! These are people who believe it's their way or no way at all!!!

[MH1313]

I agree that smoking is a choice but should be considered with great caution when it will negatively effect those around you. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% against laws that protect you from yourself, I feel they are a waste of legislation time and the freedom of the people. I do disagree with smoking indoors though.

I live in MN where just a year and a half ago the state went 100% smokefree in all indoor workplaces. The facts are in and solid. They did testing on workers in bowling alleys restaurants and bars where smokign was allowed and the workers there who didn't smoke had high levels of the chemicals found in smoking in their blood. They survey'd the same people one year after the smoking ban and it had almost completely removed the chemicals from their bodies. Smoking bans help save lives!

For those of you who believe smoking bans cause people to lose your businesses, I challenge you to do research on this and cite specific bars and states where smoking bans have caused them to lose their business. I'm willing to bet that in each (if any) case you find there are other underlying factors that have caused them to lose their business. California and many other state who implemented smoke free workplace legislation have shown a short decrease in bar revenue, but within 6 months the numbers have returned to their normal level, if not increased. In MN many bars have closed since the advent of the smoking ban, but if you look at the economy, the smoking ban came at the same time as the economy started to fall out. The economy and people moving towards a more freugal life style closed the bars, not the smokers inability to smoke indoors.

If you havent' figured it out by now, I work very closely with the "freedom to breathe" MN's smoking ban. Before you jump on my back, I feel its necessary to disclose that I am a smoker. I've been smoking for years, and it hasn't bothered me.

I'm all on board with those of you who are saying, its a fact and deal with it...change isn't always a bad thing, if you don't like what your legislators are doing, write them and tell them! They won't know how you feel unless you tell them!

Thanks for reading!

have a good day

[Jord_84]

My parents bar HAD lost business because of the ban. We're right on the Illinois/Wisconsin border...and there's no smoking ban in place in Wisconsin right now. So instead of staying in Illinois to drink, people here having been driving 15 mins across the border into Wisconsin where they can drink and smoke indoors. Loss of business probably didn't effect too many other people, but because of our close proximity to a state without a ban, yeah it did effect us.

Now, after the hype has died down...people are coming back to our bar and staying in Illinois. They've gotten used to the ban, and many bars (ours included) have added beer gardens for smokers to sit outside and drink in during the warmer months. I've been both a smoker and a non smoker...and the ban doesn't bother me at all. I really do enjoy the fact that I don't have to breathe smoke 24/7 while I'm at bowling.

What has me miffed now are the exorbitant taxes they're putting on cigarettes. The whole thing is asinine and socialist. If you want people to quit smoking....make smoking cessation aids cheaper, and let people make their own decision. Instead, they raise the taxes...in a time when people don't have much money to begin with...in a pathetic attempt to force people to stop smoking. To me, that isn't a very "American" thing to do. Now they're talking about raising the federal tax by another dollar. Honestly, where will this socialist behavior stop? Next thing you know, they'll be taxing the hell out of fast food...because that's bad for you.

end rant.

[ebowler]

No government should have the power to stop a business from allowing smoking in their place of business. Next thing you know, they will want to tell us what we can and cannot do in our own home.

I do not smoke, but you should be allowed to if you want to.

[Jord_84]

No government should have the power to stop a business from allowing smoking in their place of business. Next thing you know, they will want to tell us what we can and cannot do in our own home.

I think they may have done this already in California and New York
I believe New York has, or is in the process of raising taxes on fast food.
And California is also banning black cars.

[The KingPin]

anyone having problems with or without smoking rules this fall?

[BowlnBrat]

I am a smoker and here in North Carolina, after the 1st of the year, we will no longer be able to smoke ANYWHERE that food is served...and this includes the alleys. I am not looking forward to that, as I feel it is discriminatory towards smokers. It's bad enough we have to put up with constant tax hikes on cigarette prices...now they want to take it out on us even more so by banning smoking anywhere that serves food or has a recreational value. Granted, I can go several hours in between...but it's still discriminatory if you ask me. That's why they created such things as NON SMOKING sections. That can be done in recreational places such as the bowling alley's also...as a matter of fact, in Greensboro (where I'm at) there is a bowling alley that has 2 non smoking sections...and you have to specify if you want a smoking or non smoking lane when you ask for a lane. And what really makes me mad...I'm in NORTH CAROLINA! The heart of the tobacco belt! I honestly think that alot of places will lose business b/c of the stupidity and discriminatory nature of this law!!!

[branstew]

Here in the uk no-smooking has been in place for over a year and everyone has got use to it, it did make a differece at first with numbers down in the bar and even bowing but now it is picking up again, the only thing now all the smookers rush outside at the end of a game for a quick "fix" before playing the next game, this can be annoying when you are trying to keep your concertration during a match.

[dpmusic70]

You'll get used to it. I'm actually glad to hear that since we go to Winston-Salem every year and it will be nice to be in a non smoking bolwing center. We live in Florida where its been that way for years now.

[Jord_84]

I quit smoking a month ago, so it really hasn't effected me. It's actually been quite pleasant having the lanes smoke free.

I do feel bad for the smokers though....Some leagues are really tough on them when they try to run out for a smoke in between when they're up

[branstew]

It is just when you are really up for it and they disapear out smoke between games, I just find it so hard to concertrate

[Stormed1]

Illinois has a no smoking law. Indiana does not have one. As we are close to the Indiana line one local center lost 3 leagues to Indiana centers just because they could smoke while bowling. I am a non-smoker so it does'nt affect me either way, I have a couple teammates who i had to inform you either bowl or emoke not both. we were constantly waiting while they stepped outside to smoke. Now they only do a smoke between games

[Jord_84]

well it's never ok for them to hold up the game.

Some of the league presidents/secretaries I've encountered though, are blatantly unfair to the smokers. They'd skip you and mark your frame zero if you weren't right there as soon as your name came up.
It got to the point where the women on my league would lie and say they had to go to the bathroom.....and then sneak outside instead.

[gutterball]

You know this whole matter is a big fuss. You got ppl that don't smoke that stand in the yard by the leaf fire but you don't see them calling there state rep when they smell like a leaf fire. So i think we need to stop ppl from burning leafs in the yard it is getting on my nerves having to smell them nasty leaf fires burning dang wind starts blowing and it comes in my house and covers up all my cigg smoke. I don't care what anyone does there is always going to be diff pll in this world. I smoke and in the state of GA we have a smoking ban you can not smoke in any building that serve food or has kids there under the age of 18. Now in the bars you can smoke as long as the bar does not serve food. Ok I DON'T have a problem with the smoking ban i think it is ok i for one do not like to smell cigarette smoke when i am eating i can wait until i am out the door to smoke. But i do understand that in a place you are going to be for hours it is hard to wait that long. and if the bowling leagues don't like someone running out to smoke then they should let it be known before the man are woman joins. The ppl that want to slip out and smoke and bowl should join a league that does not have a problem with it.And i have a bigger problem with ppl that drink and get drunk to the point of being a pain in the butt. Makes me not want to go bowling anymore, hard to bowl with some drunk screaming to the top of his lungs Bring me a beer dammit. I don't know i guess we all have to be fussing about something so why not fuss at the ppl that pay more taxes some one got to keep up the government. Think i will have a beer and a smoke seeya guys later.

[psaunders300]

The only problem we have in Maryland is when the smokers go outside for a smoke break and slow the game down...I have a friend that bowls in a league that actually put in a "smoking" rule that allows smokers to take five minute breaks after each game to go and smoke...pathetic, but true.

[kakcpa]

I cannot stand smoking at the bowling lanes. I cannot wait till the day when my backwards-*** state of Michigan passes no smoking in public areas.

[hondo]

All good points. Happy Birthday to Jim. Say hi to Art Bell. Coast to Coast is the best.

[uplander]

No smoking here in Calif. I've also noticed that there's also no smoking while bowling in Vegas. They do allow smoking in the bar lounge in Vegas if you really want to smoke, at the Gold Coast, while bowling. I personally don't like breathing in second hand smoke.

[nathan]

How's about we ban makeup as I believe that when you apply makeup it can't be good for your skin by applying something that clog's up your pores!!
Makeup doesn't get into other people's lungs and clothes.

[DucksBowler]

Growing up, I always argued with certain friends about bowling's qualification as a sport. One's argument was that, "If you can smoke and drink a beer while you're playing, it's not a real sport." This is the same friend that buys us rounds when we go golfing so that kind of hurts his opinion. I'm not innocent, either. I've bought a beer during some casual frames with friends.

The argument makes sense, though. In no other competitive sport that I have ever participated in has the permission of smoking been a contested issue. I know it's not an issue at the professional level, but do people in YMCA basketball leagues get mad that they can't smoke on the bench?

Not having to bowl in a smoke-filled center like those in Ft. Wayne is also nicer on the nostrils.