Complete beginner video, any and ALL comments are very welcome!

[zdawg]

Oh and to note, I'm going very slow in these videos as somewhere along the line I pretty much lost my ability to hook the ball (it does appear to hook a little in these videos but it's significantly less than when I first started trying to throw a hook). I have had a lesson, and some of stuff I'm still working on getting implemented (as I tend to forget sometimes), so I suspect some of the suggestions will be ones that were mentioned to me during my lesson.

(the first video was shot by a teammate during a frustrating league night so the angle is a bit different than the other ones where my phone was just propped up on one of my flipflops).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDkGgkuTMmA&feature=youtu.be

[zdawg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0gOvIC0vo&feature=youtu.be

[zdawg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7FUcUZDr0&feature=youtu.be

[zdawg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK08mSAUWDQ&feature=youtu.be

[e-tank]

What ball are you using? Also how are the lanes at Kearney usually? Never bowled there myself...

[zdawg]

What ball are you using? Also how are the lanes at Kearney usually? Never bowled there myself...

It's a used Ebonite Cyclone, so no idea how many games were on it when I bought it. Between league and practice, I probably have put about 120 - 150 games on it myself (gonna give it a bath using the hot water/dish soap method). I know it's an entry level ball so I'm not expecting to hook it 20 boards, but still I was able to get more backend reaction back when I had less of an idea of what I was doing LOL

I'd say the lanes are heavier oil, I've had other people comment to me that the lanes seem very oily, also they were just replaced prior to my league starting (probably in August) so the lanes are pretty new. I've been to your house, and the ball does tend to be easier to hook - it's just that I was able to hook more at KMB a month ago, I wish I had video from back then to see if I was doing something fundamentally different but unfortunately I don't.

[dnhoffman]

You're at a pretty typical plateau/block that lot of the guys I coach hit when first learning to hook a ball correctly. There's a lot to work on but if I was coaching you I'd start with the following:

1) your wrist is breaking - look at your wrist position after you finish in the videos. You can learn proper wrist form with equipment aids. I'd HIGHLY suggest the Mongoose Lifter, I've had 4-5 different braces and got this one last week (from bowlingball.com #shamelessplug) and it was so useful that I barely use it... It just reinforced proper mechanics so well I didn't feel I needed one after a few games with it.

2) your arm swing (along with all of your mechanics really) needs to be MUCH looser. Look at how your arm sticks there. To me that says you're tense, and being tense in bowling is the worse thing you can do... Leads to gripping, being off balance, etc.

3) you're playing terrible lines for your style. Move wayyyyy outside and let your ball get aggressive. You're going up narrow lines where all the oil is like you're Tony Rucco. Move outside and relax - you'll throw faster, have better entry angle, and get more for your money on every shot.

4) either de oil that ball and then put a little surface on it to help it read earlier or alternatively go to an www.ibpsia.com certified pro shop and get fitted properly with a different ball. I'd be willing to bet your thumb is too loose for one thing.

Work with a coach man, you're at that point in the learning curve where it gets harder before it's easier but it DOES get better! Stick with it, you're almost there. Don't quit 5 minutes before the miracle happens.

[zdawg]

You're at a pretty typical plateau/block that lot of the guys I coach hit when first learning to hook a ball correctly. There's a lot to work on but if I was coaching you I'd start with the following:

1) your wrist is breaking - look at your wrist position after you finish in the videos. You can learn proper wrist form with equipment aids. I'd HIGHLY suggest the Mongoose Lifter, I've had 4-5 different braces and got this one last week (from bowlingball.com #shamelessplug) and it was so useful that I barely use it... It just reinforced proper mechanics so well I didn't feel I needed one after a few games with it.

2) your arm swing (along with all of your mechanics really) needs to be MUCH looser. Look at how your arm sticks there. To me that says you're tense, and being tense in bowling is the worse thing you can do... Leads to gripping, being off balance, etc.

3) you're playing terrible lines for your style. Move wayyyyy outside and let your ball get aggressive. You're going up narrow lines where all the oil is like you're Tony Rucco. Move outside and relax - you'll throw faster, have better entry angle, and get more for your money on every shot.

4) either de oil that ball and then put a little surface on it to help it read earlier or alternatively go to an www.ibpsia.com certified pro shop and get fitted properly with a different ball. I'd be willing to bet your thumb is too loose for one thing.

Work with a coach man, you're at that point in the learning curve where it gets harder before it's easier but it DOES get better! Stick with it, you're almost there. Don't quit 5 minutes before the miracle happens.

Thanks very much for the comments!

In response:

I did actually purchase the Mongoose lifter last week I just haven't used it much as I was afraid of becoming reliant on it (but I will now that you've confirmed my wrist issue - and I do purchase most of my stuff from bowlingball.com).

One of the things Mark Baker wanted me to do was increase my backswing which I thought I had done, but looking at this video I see you're right it does appear to be much shorter than it "feels" when I'm actually bowling. It makes sense if I loosen up than the swing should be much more free and most likely the length of the swing should increase?

By moving more outside, you mean more to the left correct? (sorry still learning all the terminology) Not sure who Tony Rucco is but I'll look him up :D And if I move farther left, should I still aim for my target (the 10 board)?

As for de-oiling, yes I'm gonna do the bucket hot water/soap thing. My league is getting close to the break, I was planning on buying a more reactive ball and going to a highly respected pro shop here in San Diego l chatted with the owner for a while the other day and like his reviews he is VERY knowledgeable and I trust him, and then this ball would then become my spare ball (I might also get a thumb insert because I do feel like the thumb is too big).

And yeah, I'm not a quitter so that's not an option (even if I get a little frustrated now and then) and thanks for all your help

[dnhoffman]

I mean moving to the right and letting your ball find dry sooner and read earlier.

On the shot you took the video on (it changes depending on the pattern/conditions) - The 10 board should be your break point but not necessarily your target. Look up some videos on 3 point targeting. I would almost have you throwing on the 7/8 board but that's getting ahead of yourself - your main problem (in my opinion at least) is relaxing your hand and arm swing.

[zdawg]

I mean moving to the right and letting your ball find dry sooner and read earlier.

On the shot you took the video on (it changes depending on the pattern/conditions) - The 10 board should be your break point but not necessarily your target. Look up some videos on 3 point targeting. I would almost have you throwing on the 7/8 board but that's getting ahead of yourself - your main problem (in my opinion at least) is relaxing your hand and arm swing.

Ok thanks, I'll play around a bit tomorrow moving to the right and try to shoot some more video, also I'll try and focus on relaxing my hand and swing

[e-tank]

It's a used Ebonite Cyclone, so no idea how many games were on it when I bought it. Between league and practice, I probably have put about 120 - 150 games on it myself (gonna give it a bath using the hot water/dish soap method). I know it's an entry level ball so I'm not expecting to hook it 20 boards, but still I was able to get more backend reaction back when I had less of an idea of what I was doing LOL

I'd say the lanes are heavier oil, I've had other people comment to me that the lanes seem very oily, also they were just replaced prior to my league starting (probably in August) so the lanes are pretty new. I've been to your house, and the ball does tend to be easier to hook - it's just that I was able to hook more at KMB a month ago, I wish I had video from back then to see if I was doing something fundamentally different but unfortunately I don't.

Yea the lanes are usually pretty clean during practice. Too bad during my league its not the same case lol. Does kearny have specials during the day? 1.50 games from 9am-3pm at mm

[zdawg]

Yea the lanes are usually pretty clean during practice. Too bad during my league its not the same case lol. Does kearny have specials during the day? 1.50 games from 9am-3pm at mm

KMB does $1.75/game if you're in a league pretty much all the time, other than that I think they have specials but it depends on the day/time. Funny enough, I didn't know that until about a month ago, so prior to that I was bowling more at Mira Mesa and the Brunswick lanes down in Chula Vista because my scores were higher at those lanes maybe a coincidence? :D

[Terrier]

Hey, zdawg. You've got some solid footwork and timing. Here are a couple little things I see to add to that.

- The first thing I'd concentrate on doing is to get your knee bend in earlier. You're standing up almost straight at the start, then you seem to get lower and lower on steps 3 and 5 (at least in the first video). If you are in the process of bending low at the end while swinging the ball forward, the path of the ball follows a scooping motion, which results in lost leverage. You'll end up sort of tossing the ball forward instead of revving it through a swing. Try bending your knees to their final height before the forward swing. In other words, however tall you're standing at the top of the backswing is the height you should maintain through the release.

So at which step should your knee bend be set? There's no general rule on that. It really depends on what's comfortable for you to bowl for a couple hours. If you have good knees and leg strength, you can probably bend them before step 1 and maintain that through step 5. You'll have to experiment with this a little.

- The next thing you can do is to make the ball to swing under your head. (You seem balanced as it is. Unfortunately, this is likely to force you off balance and you'll have to regain it.) Your swing plane seems to be out by your right shoulder, which means your eyes are several inches to the left of the ball at all times. It's pretty hard to hit your target arrow this way, so here's the fix. While you're standing on the approach, drop your right shoulder down and lean your torso to the right. If you let the ball hang down from your shoulder, it should be (close to) in-line with your eyes. This will really help you with your aim once you are balanced again. (If you play billiards, this is the same idea as keeping your eyes directly above the cue stick while lining up a shot.) Watch some right-handed pros on YouTube, and notice that they all start with their right shoulder down lower than their left shoulder. Also, at their release, their heads are directly above the path of the ball.

[zdawg]

So at which step should your knee bend be set? There's no general rule on that. It really depends on what's comfortable for you to bowl for a couple hours. If you have good knees and leg strength, you can probably bend them before step 1 and maintain that through step 5. You'll have to experiment with this a little.

Hi Terrier, thanks for the comments.

About the knee bend, I'm still confused on this one - my original stance prior to my lesson was more bend before I even started my approach. I tended to get low very early, however Mark Baker emphasized that I start out standing tall, so I guess I'm still trying to figure out when to bend me knees - and since it's not automatic yet, I sometimes forget completely which is not doing my left hip any favors. I'll continue to work on that, and I've been analyzing various videos on youtube trying to figure out how soon certain players bend. In retrospect I probably should've asked him about when to bend, how low I should go, etc. but I'll get that worked out.


The next thing you can do is to make the ball to swing under your head. (You seem balanced as it is. Unfortunately, this is likely to force you off balance and you'll have to regain it.) Your swing plane seems to be out by your right shoulder, which means your eyes are several inches to the left of the ball at all times. It's pretty hard to hit your target arrow this way, so here's the fix. While you're standing on the approach, drop your right shoulder down and lean your torso to the right. If you let the ball hang down from your shoulder, it should be (close to) in-line with your eyes. This will really help you with your aim once you are balanced again. (If you play billiards, this is the same idea as keeping your eyes directly above the cue stick while lining up a shot.) Watch some right-handed pros on YouTube, and notice that they all start with their right shoulder down lower than their left shoulder. Also, at their release, their heads are directly above the path of the ball.

Actually I do play billiards, been playing since I was tall enough to see over the edge of the table (my dad had a table in our basement when I was a kid) and this makes perfect sense - I'm hitting just left of my target more often than not. I've noticed the "dropping" of the right shoulder on many of the videos I've watched, just haven't tried incoporating it into my game yet. But yes, this will be added to the list of things to start adding.

[Aslan]

About the knee bend, I'm still confused on this one - my original stance prior to my lesson was more bend before I even started my approach. I tended to get low very early, however Mark Baker emphasized that I start out standing tall, so I guess I'm still trying to figure out when to bend me knees - and since it's not automatic yet, I sometimes forget completely which is not doing my left hip any favors. I'll continue to work on that, and I've been analyzing various videos on youtube trying to figure out how soon certain players bend.

I TOTALLY FEEL YA man!! I almost thing coaches are starting to go to a more "straight up" approach for teaching beginning bowlers or something. It'd be interesting to hear from some guys that may have just got their USBC coaching certification. Because my coach....same thing. I had a very low approach...but it was slightly bent forward. So he emphasized standing straight up and just tossing the ball with straight shoulders...hand to the ceiling sort of thing. Then as I started playing heavier oil....that approach became problematic. Now I'm back to getting low and less loft...like I was when I started...just less "leaning forward".

Since you and I are in the same boat...I don't have much to offer except maybe balance. On your approaches, try to get that right leg over and keep you balance arm (left) out...pretty much whatever feels comfortable to keep you "balanced". Good luck! And if in the process of figuring out my own knee bend vs. standing up...I'll pass it along!

[zdawg]

Since you and I are in the same boat...I don't have much to offer except maybe balance. On your approaches, try to get that right leg over and keep you balance arm (left) out...pretty much whatever feels comfortable to keep you "balanced". Good luck! And if in the process of figuring out my own knee bend vs. standing up...I'll pass it along!

Good point about the right leg, its one of those details that still isn't automatic for me, when I consciously focus on it I do keep it over and more on the ground rather than lifting it willy nilly like I did in some of these videos. But yeah, yesterday I wasn't focused on it so you can see that its kinda all over the place.

And yeah, if you figure out the knee bend please let me know!

[Aslan]

I only mention balance because thats the #1 thing I'm working on now.

It used to be "balance, snap/muscle (release), and follow-through". Now it's more, "balance, easy pendulum swing (no muscling), snap the wrist at the target". But I feel ya...there are alot of games where I'll go 1-2 games before realizing I am not using my balance arm. If I'm concentrating on my approach and timing and release...it's REALLY easy to forget that left arm is even there. The problem (for a beginner) with a bowling approach is you got like 9-12 things all happeneing in about 3 seconds.

[zdawg]

I only mention balance because thats the #1 thing I'm working on now.

It used to be "balance, snap/muscle (release), and follow-through". Now it's more, "balance, easy pendulum swing (no muscling), snap the wrist at the target". But I feel ya...there are alot of games where I'll go 1-2 games before realizing I am not using my balance arm. If I'm concentrating on my approach and timing and release...it's REALLY easy to forget that left arm is even there. The problem (for a beginner) with a bowling approach is you got like 9-12 things all happeneing in about 3 seconds.

That is exactly right. I'm glad I gave video a try, just looking at it I can see things so much more clearly, plus of course folks on the site can get an idea of what I'm doing and help steer me in the right direction as well.

[classygranny]

Hi Terrier, thanks for the comments.

About the knee bend, I'm still confused on this one - my original stance prior to my lesson was more bend before I even started my approach. I tended to get low very early, however Mark Baker emphasized that I start out standing tall, so I guess I'm still trying to figure out when to bend me knees - and since it's not automatic yet, I sometimes forget completely which is not doing my left hip any favors. I'll continue to work on that, and I've been analyzing various videos on youtube trying to figure out how soon certain players bend. In retrospect I probably should've asked him about when to bend, how low I should go, etc. but I'll get that worked out.


Check with your coach, but here's what I'm working on with my coach - I use to be very low to start as well. Now, my stance is more upright with a bit of flex in the knees. As you walk, the idea is to get lower and lower (more knee bend-not forward bend) with each step...think of an airplane gliding into a landing and make your knee bend similar to that gliding.

[J Anderson]

It'd be interesting to hear from some guys that may have just got their USBC coaching certification.

I just looked it up in the coaching manual I received at a USA Bowling clinic I attended last year as a refresher.

The manual describes the starting stance as an athletic pose. Knees are slightly bent so they are over but not past the toes. Spine is tilted slightly forward, again so the chin is in line with the knees and toes so the weight is over the balls of the feet.