Technique Questions.

[TotallyDefiant]

A week ago today I purchased my first finger tip ball(Roto Grip Totally Defiant). In the past week I have bowled atleast 30 games. I have tried figuring out the modern release that I have been reading about but what seems to work best for me is a straight back and straight forward type of motion. I also have to wear a Robby's Original wrist support due to a really bad right wrist. The local pro shop guy was having me line up on the #10 board and release up the 10 board. I never could find the right side of the pins until I started reading up on the forum and figured out that I needed to start moving left while keeping the same release point. My question is this. Last night while practicing I actually counted the boards and found that I was lining up on the 24 board but yet still releasing on the 10 board and was finding the pocket quite well. I am new to this style of bowling so please forgive me if the terminology is not correct. Do not know if the ball speed will help anyone out but according to the screen my average speed is between 17.3-17.9 mph. Also, when I am missing I am leaving a lot of 6-10, 9, and 10 pins. Spare shooting has been good and have been shooting between 165-190 almost everytime. Would love to get it over the 200 mark.

[Aslan]

I always wonder what constitutes playing "inside". Because when I use my Hammer ball I try to play "inside" where my left foot is on the 24-27 board, I'm laying it down over the 15-16 board, and it's going out toward the 9-11 board.

To me, thats playing inside. It's starting out left of center and throwing the ball towards the right and having it come back. It seems like we're both lining up 24ish and throwing out towards the 10ish range. I throw at a lower speed but it's hard to say if that matters because I don't know your rev rate. Your and my ball are similar in RG (I'm about to lose most of the audience) but your's is designed to go slightly longer and have a slightly more drastic backend (plus the assymetric core)...and my coverstock isn't going to want to go that long before arcing back...much smoother arc due to the more symmetric core.

If I understand the balls (absent drilling differences) and how they're thrown (absent rev rate)...I have to move very slightly more inside than you, throw at a lower speed, and throw a large arc of a shot...you're able to stay a few boards right on the approach, ramp up the speed a little, aiming for the same target board, because you're getting a little more length and backend.

If I had my Defiant Edge drilled up, I bet it would be a much closer match ball to ball. But that beauty is at the back of the line...gotta wait it's turn!

I would answer your question (rather than ramble about ball specifications hoping to enrage Mudpuppy)...but you never asked a question.

[TotallyDefiant]

Aslan: I did not really know how to ask what I was wanting to ask. All my life I've just picked the ball up and just threw it down the lane and hoped I knocked down all the pins. Never tried to actually learn the game. I'm now wanting to learn everything I can about the game and was hoping one of the experts would be able to figure out what I was asking in my ramble of a post lol

[J Anderson]

A week ago today I purchased my first finger tip ball(Roto Grip Totally Defiant). In the past week I have bowled atleast 30 games. I have tried figuring out the modern release that I have been reading about but what seems to work best for me is a straight back and straight forward type of motion. I also have to wear a Robby's Original wrist support due to a really bad right wrist. The local pro shop guy was having me line up on the #10 board and release up the 10 board. I never could find the right side of the pins until I started reading up on the forum and figured out that I needed to start moving left while keeping the same release point. My question is this. Last night while practicing I actually counted the boards and found that I was lining up on the 24 board but yet still releasing on the 10 board and was finding the pocket quite well. I am new to this style of bowling so please forgive me if the terminology is not correct. Do not know if the ball speed will help anyone out but according to the screen my average speed is between 17.3-17.9 mph. Also, when I am missing I am leaving a lot of 6-10, 9, and 10 pins. Spare shooting has been good and have been shooting between 165-190 almost everytime. Would love to get it over the 200 mark.

It would help if we know what you mean by "line up on the #10 board". While I am fond of saying that it doesn't matter what you use to line up on the approach as long as you are consistent in how you do it, it can cause some confusion when talking to other bowlers who use a different part of the foot or even a different foot to gauge where to set up.

[TotallyDefiant]

It would help if we know what you mean by "line up on the #10 board". While I am fond of saying that it doesn't matter what you use to line up on the approach as long as you are consistent in how you do it, it can cause some confusion when talking to other bowlers who use a different part of the foot or even a different foot to gauge where to set up.

What I mean is when I am setting up the 24 board in under my big toe on my left foot. When I am releasing the ball I am actually focusing on the second dot on the lane which if I am not mistaken should be the 10 board. The local Pro shop guy had me lining up the 10 board under the big toe on my left foot. When I lined up the way he wanted me to line up and release the ball at the same 2nd dot on the lane my ball would come across and hit between the 2 and 4 pins. However, with where I moved to I am now able to find the 1-3 pocket a lot more consistently. Again, I am sorry if I am not describing everything very well because I am new to trying to discuss bowling technique, setup, release points focus points and the like. I guess if you want you could call me a 100% complete dumb newbie to the game now.

[Trex]

To get over the 200 mark, just keep the game clean..meaning use a spare ball if you must to get all your spares. Then if you keep the game clean by picking up all your spares, then it won't take but a few strikes in a row to get you that over 200 mark. If you are missing spares due to trying to use a hook ball on all spares and that is causing you to miss a few spares, then please just use a spare ball.

Many people refuse to use a spare ball for picking up spares, but I saw Norm Duke lose a match due to trying to only use one ball for strikes and spares!!

I don't care how good you are, or how well you can flatten out your wrist...etc...Some conditions don't always allow you to effectively pick up all spares with a hook ball!!!

Get a few strikes, and keep the game clean by using spare ball to pick up those tough spares, and you got it made!!! :)

[TotallyDefiant]

It would help if we know what you mean by "line up on the #10 board". While I am fond of saying that it doesn't matter what you use to line up on the approach as long as you are consistent in how you do it, it can cause some confusion when talking to other bowlers who use a different part of the foot or even a different foot to gauge where to set up.

I'll see if I can get my wife to record a couple tonight while I am bowling and will try to figure out how to upload the video from my phone that way you will be able to see what I am doing instead of me trying to explain what I am doing. And fair warning before I do post the video when I figure out how, my back swing is very very short.

[Ptnomore]

Short back swing may not be a problem as long as the arm swing is free and natural...meaning, you aren't pulling the ball back, and then pushing it forward and throwing the ball. Your swing should be free of muscle effort. From the push away and drop, you are walking by the ball, and timing such that the ball starts to come forward as your slide foot is sliding toward the foul line.

Muscling the ball creates inaccuracy. Spend some time researching timing on here, and youtube. Look at both 4 step and 5 step approaches. Get your timing right. Get a natural arm swing, and your accuracy and scores will come up.

Good luck, and welcome to the addiction.

[TotallyDefiant]

Short back swing may not be a problem as long as the arm swing is free and natural...meaning, you aren't pulling the ball back, and then pushing it forward and throwing the ball. Your swing should be free of muscle effort. From the push away and drop, you are walking by the ball, and timing such that the ball starts to come forward as your slide foot is sliding toward the foul line.

Muscling the ball creates inaccuracy. Spend some time researching timing on here, and youtube. Look at both 4 step and 5 step approaches. Get your timing right. Get a natural arm swing, and your accuracy and scores will come up.

Good luck, and welcome to the addiction.

I try to let everything happen as natural as I can. learned a lot of that from my golfing days.

[Mike White]

A week ago today I purchased my first finger tip ball(Roto Grip Totally Defiant). In the past week I have bowled atleast 30 games. I have tried figuring out the modern release that I have been reading about but what seems to work best for me is a straight back and straight forward type of motion. I also have to wear a Robby's Original wrist support due to a really bad right wrist. The local pro shop guy was having me line up on the #10 board and release up the 10 board. I never could find the right side of the pins until I started reading up on the forum and figured out that I needed to start moving left while keeping the same release point. My question is this. Last night while practicing I actually counted the boards and found that I was lining up on the 24 board but yet still releasing on the 10 board and was finding the pocket quite well. I am new to this style of bowling so please forgive me if the terminology is not correct. Do not know if the ball speed will help anyone out but according to the screen my average speed is between 17.3-17.9 mph. Also, when I am missing I am leaving a lot of 6-10, 9, and 10 pins. Spare shooting has been good and have been shooting between 165-190 almost everytime. Would love to get it over the 200 mark.

The only way for us to properly diagnose a problem, is for you to clearly describe the problem.
However, if you were able to describe the problem that well, you would probably also be able to fix it yourself.

So, the next best thing is... Show us the video.

If there is any way to record your bowling, and post it to Youtube, you would remove 99% of the guess work by the rest of us.

[Mike White]

I try to let everything happen as natural as I can. learned a lot of that from my golfing days.

Oh no, another naturalist... Aslan doesn't want to see images of your junk :)

[TotallyDefiant]

Oh no, another naturalist... Aslan doesn't want to see images of your junk :)

Don't worry I am so white the camera would just see straight through me. lol. But any serious tips about bowling are always welcomed.

[TotallyDefiant]

Wife would not record anything tonight but my first game out of the gate went: X, X, 7-, -/, X, X, X, 7-, X, X, 8 1= 199. While in the 10th frame on my second shot they turned the lights off right as I was releasing the ball. Oh well. I was looking forward to busting 200 tonight for the first time since getting back into it but still happy with the 199. Steadily improving.

[Trex]

Wife would not record anything tonight but my first game out of the gate went: X, X, 7-, -/, X, X, X, 7-, X, X, 8 1= 199. While in the 10th frame on my second shot they turned the lights off right as I was releasing the ball. Oh well. I was looking forward to busting 200 tonight for the first time since getting back into it but still happy with the 199. Steadily improving.


So Asian, since you know everything, and tried to tell me that a spare ball is not important, look at the score above.

Looks to me like if the guy had a good spare ball, and would got those couple spares, then the 200 game would have been achieved!!

And I am not talking about a stupid house ball.

And Asian, by the way, if you think you can make a living with one bowling ball on the PBA, then come on and join me as I bring my entire arsenal that is set up for any condition I may come across!! yeah come on and join me please :cool:

[Trex]

Wife would not record anything tonight but my first game out of the gate went: X, X, 7-, -/, X, X, X, 7-, X, X, 8 1= 199. While in the 10th frame on my second shot they turned the lights off right as I was releasing the ball. Oh well. I was looking forward to busting 200 tonight for the first time since getting back into it but still happy with the 199. Steadily improving.

Great bowling TotallyDefiant!! :D

That 200 is coming soon!! :cool:

[TotallyDefiant]

Great bowling TotallyDefiant!! :D

That 200 is coming soon!! :cool:

Thank you Trex. I do have a second ball but I am going to have to have it redrilled because it is the same Columbia ball that I have had since I was 13. Fingers just do not fit in it properly anymore. Maybe I can get that 200 this sunday on some freshly oiled lanes.

[TotallyDefiant]

What is the difference between a cranker, stroker, and other bowling styles. Also how do you guys know what your rev rates are?

[bowl1820]

What is the difference between a cranker, stroker, and other bowling styles. Also how do you guys know what your rev rates are?

Stroker, Tweener and Cranker use to be defined by the line they played, their swing etc. today they are basically defined by Rev rate.

Here's one chart, but theres several with different variations
< 300 stroker
300-400 tweener
> 400 cranker


Watch the video in this thread for basic info on (though there's a couple of ways to do it.)

Click for How to find a bowler's PAP, ball speed, rev rate, axis rotation and axis tilt (http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/10026-How-to-find-a-bowler-s-PAP-ball-speed-rev-rate-axis-rotation-and-axis-tilt)

[TotallyDefiant]

Stroker, Tweener and Cranker use to be defined by the line they played, their swing etc. today they are basically defined by Rev rate.

Here's one chart, but theres several with different variations
< 300 stroker
300-400 tweener
> 400 cranker


Watch the video in this thread for basic info on (though there's a couple of ways to do it.)

Click for How to find a bowler's PAP, ball speed, rev rate, axis rotation and axis tilt (http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/10026-How-to-find-a-bowler-s-PAP-ball-speed-rev-rate-axis-rotation-and-axis-tilt)

Sounds like a very complicated system lol. One of these days when I am more consistent with my release I will have to get the local Pro Shop to figure out what my Rev rate is.

[tccstudent]

Sounds like a very complicated system lol. One of these days when I am more consistent with my release I will have to get the local Pro Shop to figure out what my Rev rate is.

I had that done once several years ago I would like to see what it is now I think I have much more rotation then I had back then. Back then it was 450 but that was tested on a throw where I was really trying to rip it and not my normal throw.

[J Anderson]

What I mean is when I am setting up the 24 board in under my big toe on my left foot. When I am releasing the ball I am actually focusing on the second dot on the lane which if I am not mistaken should be the 10 board. The local Pro shop guy had me lining up the 10 board under the big toe on my left foot. When I lined up the way he wanted me to line up and release the ball at the same 2nd dot on the lane my ball would come across and hit between the 2 and 4 pins. However, with where I moved to I am now able to find the 1-3 pocket a lot more consistently. Again, I am sorry if I am not describing everything very well because I am new to trying to discuss bowling technique, setup, release points focus points and the like. I guess if you want you could call me a 100% complete dumb newbie to the game now.

I'm really shocked that the pro would have you set up with your foot on the same board as your target. Assuming that you didn't drift left, that would have your ball crossing the foul line around the 5 board. If it went over your target, it already be at the center of the lane by 45'.

[TotallyDefiant]

I'm really shocked that the pro would have you set up with your foot on the same board as your target. Assuming that you didn't drift left, that would have your ball crossing the foul line around the 5 board. If it went over your target, it already be at the center of the lane by 45'.

I was not paying attention when I typed that up J Anderson. It was a crazy day at work the day I typed that up but he was setting me up on the 15. I am now setting up on 28 and releasing towards the first arrow. seems to be working a lot better than trying to throw straight down the lane for me. Went out Saturday night to bowl with my brother. Really did not try working on anything that night and was just trying to have fun and ended up with a 3 game series of 185, 180, 200***. Ended the third game XXX9 to shoot 200.

[J Anderson]

I was not paying attention when I typed that up J Anderson. It was a crazy day at work the day I typed that up but he was setting me up on the 15. I am now setting up on 28 and releasing towards the first arrow. seems to be working a lot better than trying to throw straight down the lane for me. Went out Saturday night to bowl with my brother. Really did not try working on anything that night and was just trying to have fun and ended up with a 3 game series of 185, 180, 200***. Ended the third game XXX9 to shoot 200.

Okay, now it makes sense. A lot of learning any skill is figuring out what works for you.

[TotallyDefiant]

Would it be against the rules for me to post a video in here for all to see?

[tr33frog]

Would it be against the rules for me to post a video in here for all to see?

You can post videos. People post videos of them bowling all the time asking for help.

[bowl1820]

Would it be against the rules for me to post a video in here for all to see?
Sure you can post a video!

If you want to post a video of you bowling for review, I would start a new thread so you can get new comments directed toward it specifically.

[TotallyDefiant]

If you want to post a video of you bowling for review, I would start a new thread so you can get new comments directed toward it specifically.

Okay. I will start a new thread that way we can get away from all this secondary ball for spare shooting conversations.

[TotallyDefiant]

1) The % of people that play multiple houses and tournaments is about 3.5%. And the OP is not one of them.

It's like a guy taking his car in for service and asking about whether he should take the passenger seat out of his car, switch to slick tires, and add a roll cage...because thats how all the Nascar guys are set up. It's not that it's a "bad idea"...it's just unnecessary for a daily commute. Not saying it won't come in handy if he finds himself in a drag race or rollover crash...but really?? You're giving advice to a new player, making the case that a spare ball is essential, and using the arguement that it's very advantageous on different houses and sport patterns...which really only applies to advanced bowlers.

2) If throwing a plastic ball was SO much of an advantage....because it practically follows a track to whereever you're aiming...why not throw it as a strike ball? I mean, if you're THAT precise...you should be able to easily hit the ideal spot in the pocket.

Again, I'm not saying it isn't advantageous if you're using "big hook" equipment to have a ball that goes straighter (whether low level reactive, hybrid, urethane, or plastic). And obviously if you're a tournament level player or playing on pro level patterns...the game may require it. And I agree that it's better to have that "lesser ball" than to mess with your release and mechanics. But if on a standard THS (irregardless of center), you can't throw a Tropical Breeze or Strike King or Scout and hit your target...that seems "odd". Maybe not. If you're a high rev player...and there's just too much movement with reactive resin coverstocks...then I stand corrected. But low level reactive balls move so very, very little and for most (non-split) leaves you have such a wide margin of error...I don't see how someone can say it's a "necessity" to throw a plastic ball on a THS. I've seen just as many people missing after switching to the plastic ball as I do miss because there ball hooks to much...actually I'd say it's 3-1 or 4-1.

My spare shooting isn't great....but that has NOTHING to do with my ball. I actually threw a Columbia WD as by "spare ball" for quitre some time and was even WORSE at picking up spares. The only time I miss spares "because of my refusal to use a plastic ball" is "sometimes" on a 6-10 leave I'll chop or "sometimes" on a 1-2-4 or 1-3-6 I'll chop. But compared to how many single 10s I leave and catch a "break" because the ball hooks a little bit into the 10 rather than hitting the gutter in front of the 10...plastic doesn't make sense for me. Doesn't mean there aren't people that benefit from it...just not for me. And I have no problem with people going that route...it just makes me a little skeptical when people phrase the debate that you NEED a plastic spare ball or when people say "the FIRST THING you need is to get you a plastic spare ball"...I think those statements are misleading to newer/non-tournament players. Learning how your ball reacts and how to make lateral movements or even changes to your swing/approach/etc... in order to pick certain leaves up...I personally think is far more important for a newer player than building arsenals and adding a plastic ball...IMO.

OK. AS FAR AS THE CONFRONTATION GOING BACK AND FORTH OVER A SPARE BALL. PLEASE DROP THE TOPIC. ALMOST EVERY POST YOU HAVE MADE HAS BEEN ABOUT A SPARE BALL. I do have a spare ball. I do use my spare ball. Please take it to PMs if you guys want to keep discussing spare balls. Please no more. As far as multiple houses. I do play in more than one house. I have two different bowling alleys where I live. I bowl one more than the other because I am a member at one but still go the other one to play on completely different lanes.

[bowl1820]

TotallyDefiant this should have your thread back on track, all the spare ball talk has it's own thread now.

So hopefully any discussion here will be more about your post.

[TotallyDefiant]

TotallyDefiant this should have your thread back on track, all the spare ball talk has it's own thread now.

So hopefully any discussion here will be more about your post.

Thanks again.