Is this how most centers handle leagues

[NewToBowling]

First league starting in a week. Have not heard any communications from them so when I finally went in and asked if we were all set up they looked in their system and said yes we are signed up and to just show up on that day.

Asked them if they would have called me prior to league start they kind off shrugged it off and said sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I thought this was curious. Wouldn't it make sense to remind people about their league especially considering many signed up months ago. BTW this is an AMF center

This is not a serious league. Basically one where we get a DV8 ball at end of league so not bad

[LyalC52]

sounds about right

league meeting 30 minutes prior to bowling the first night is common around here

you may run across a league or two that have very active officers that may call or email, but I would think those are a rare commodity

[Amyers]

sounds about right

league meeting 30 minutes prior to bowling the first night is common around here

you may run across a league or two that have very active officers that may call or email, but I would think those are a rare commodity

Nailed it this is where bowling is failing nobody's mooving into the 21st century and staying in contact like they should in this day and age

[NewToBowling]

Yeah I'm betting there will be many no shows first league night. This is a summer league so probably less dedicated bowlers and probably more newcomers. Talked to one of the managers there and they said the majority in this league sign up only to get the ball at the end of league, main reason we chose this over others

There is another league same night, same time, same price but it's a Practice League. Basically same thing but you pay to practice and don't even get a ball. I question why anyone would choose this Practice League over the one we signed up for

[jab5325]

I wouldn't expect a bowling center/league to contact me prior to the first night. It would be nice, but I don't expect it.

[NewToBowling]

Well just got an email so I guess that's how they communicate. Works for me.

[RobLV1]

In many cases, it is totally dependent on the League Secretary. I've bowled in leagues where I've gotten numerous letters, phone calls, and emails, and others where I've never heard a word. League Secretaries are paid per week, per bowler in the league, so it's really in their best interest to get all of the bowlers they can. Leagues that are run by the center, may not be as aggressive in trying to get league bowlers, particularly if they can rent open-play lanes at higher rates while leagues are in session.

[NewToBowling]

And is it common to pay week to week. That's how this one is setup. Come in and pay week to week. Would be $28/week for both me and wife.

[vdubtx]

And is it common to pay week to week. That's how this one is setup. Come in and pay week to week. Would be $28/week for both me and wife.

Yes, I only pay week to week. Some of my team mates will pay 1/2 of the season at a time. Don't have the moolah I want to part with so readily available.

The league will typically specify that you need the last few weeks paid by a certain time so they can essentially close out accounts and get prize monies etc. handled ahead of time.

[Amyers]

That is normal. I know a few guys who pay for the entire season up front but it's rare. Make sure you mark your envelops correctly if that's what they use at your center.

[Blacksox1]

That is normal. I know a few guys who pay for the entire season up front but it's rare. Make sure you mark your envelops correctly if that's what they use at your center.

Good advice.

If you pay more than a week at a time, use a check.

[NewToBowling]

That is normal. I know a few guys who pay for the entire season up front but it's rare. Make sure you mark your envelops correctly if that's what they use at your center.

I plan to pay via CC. I rarely carry cash around

[Amyers]

I would check on that none of the centers I bowl in here accept credit cards for league dues.

[vdubtx]

I would check on that none of the centers I bowl in here accept credit cards for league dues.

This. Not one of the centers I have bowled in take a CC for league fees. Cash or check only in your envelope each week.

[NewToBowling]

I would check on that none of the centers I bowl in here accept credit cards for league dues.

I do remember asking them that when I signed up and they said all forms are accepted. Will have to check again. This is all new to me and there hasn't been much communication since then. There is a pre-league meeting set up first night so we'll see.

[RobLV1]

I've bowled in leagues in California, North Carolina, Ohio, and Nevada, and I've never heard of any league that accepts credit card payments.

[bowl1820]

I've bowled in leagues in California, North Carolina, Ohio, and Nevada, and I've never heard of any league that accepts credit card payments.

My Tuesday night league here accepts CC/Debt payments for league dues. The league uses a "in house banking" system (one of the services the house offers leagues) instead of getting a "Outside" bank.

To pay you just tell them at the desk, they ring it up, swipe your card. They give you a receipt slip to put in the league envelope and one for your records and that's it.

Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it.

[RobLV1]

That makes sense, though most of the centers here use in-house banking and still don't take credit cards.

[NewToBowling]

I'll bring my checkbook just in case. Don't really carry cash

[Tony]

I agree with the rest of the comments, most centers do not typically take credit cards for league payments, they have an ATM so people can get cash and they take checks. Mind you that's just for league and sanction fee's they take credit cards for almost all regular business transactions.
The reason is because you're not really paying the bowling center you're paying into your own league fund and then the league pays per game for the bowling and keeps the remaining money for Prizes, Awards, Banquet and so on.
Good accounting practices would suggest taking that money in and keeping track of non income dues and fees would be an unwanted nightmare for the bowling center.

[JJKinGA]

Our center has taken credit cards. With AMF bowlmor standardizing they are now only allowing credit cards if you are paying for at least half a season.

[NewToBowling]

First week was last night. Confirmed only cash or check using envelope system. Credit card only if paying for full season.

Lanes were THS and looked liked it was fresh oil

167-173-167 series. Not bad I guess.

[TonyInPortland]

I bowl at a center that takes credit cards for all bowling-related fees including USBC cards. It's great, I get money back on all credit card purchases, and bowling and the lady that used to cut my hair were the only things I needed cash for. I am trying to get my 2nd league at this center as well,(not just because of the credit card thing) then I can quit using cash entirely. Also, it is like getting a discount on bowling.

[Tony]

I bowl at a center that takes credit cards for all bowling-related fees including USBC cards. It's great, I get money back on all credit card purchases, and bowling and the lady that used to cut my hair were the only things I needed cash for. I am trying to get my 2nd league at this center as well,(not just because of the credit card thing) then I can quit using cash entirely. Also, it is like getting a discount on bowling.

That's handy to be able to pay all the fee's with a credit card ! It would still be nice to have cash when buying a used car from a private party if you want a better deal !

[taxexpert2]

Interesting thread. I was thinking yesterday that it would be great if I could use a debit card for league - just like I can for practice and equipment. Guess I will find out tomorrow when league starts.

Really looking forward to this league this fall. Moved here late last year and was not able to join a league at that point. I really missed it.

[John Anderson]

Most league council members don't have the slightest clue as to how banking, accounting, and money management can be done. They usually just do it exactly how the last person in charge did it. Accepting credit cards now is incredibly easy and doesn't cost very much in fees if you have enough volume. 2% is not too bad for a league to accept. Just raise the price by a dollar a week and you can get an extra $30 per person into the league fund even after taking out card fees.

[Mike White]

Most league council members don't have the slightest clue as to how banking, accounting, and money management can be done. They usually just do it exactly how the last person in charge did it. Accepting credit cards now is incredibly easy and doesn't cost very much in fees if you have enough volume. 2% is not too bad for a league to accept. Just raise the price by a dollar a week and you can get an extra $30 per person into the league fund even after taking out card fees.

It's a bad idea for the league to get in a position where they accept credit cards.

2% is a base figure for transactions, there are also fixed per transaction fees, monthly fees, and if someone used a card that has a cash back bonus (1%, 2%, 3%) type option, that extra % is charged to the "merchant" (in this case, league)

After a while they started bumping up the monthly fees, and added an annual fee.

Finally when I had enough, and picked up a difference processor, but didn't cancel the first one incase the new one had problems.

So for the first month I didn't use the original, they tacked on an addition non-usage fee which was as much as my normal month of % fees.

Finally I decided to flat out cancel. But no, there is an early termination fee of another $200.

What makes it worse is they set the deal up so after each day's activity, the full amount of the transaction to deposited into your bank account, then at the end of the month they withdraw all of the fees.

While this sounds fair, it also allows them to just grab money from your account first, then maybe justify it later.

[bowl1820]

That's assuming the league is acting as the merchant and one paying for the card service.

Most of the leagues here use the in house banking service provided by the house, being able to pay by debit or credit is part of the service that provides.

The league doesn't pay any of the card service fees, unless you want to say it's figured into the lineage.

[Amyers]

Most league council members don't have the slightest clue as to how banking, accounting, and money management can be done. They usually just do it exactly how the last person in charge did it. Accepting credit cards now is incredibly easy and doesn't cost very much in fees if you have enough volume. 2% is not too bad for a league to accept. Just raise the price by a dollar a week and you can get an extra $30 per person into the league fund even after taking out card fees.

Raise the fees a dollar!!! Good God man what are you trying to do to me!!!! Sincerely most bowlers.

[Mike White]

That's assuming the league is acting as the merchant and one paying for the card service.

Most of the leagues here use the in house banking service provided by the house, being able to pay by debit or credit is part of the service that provides.

The league doesn't pay any of the card service fees, unless you want to say it's figured into the lineage.

In John's comment "2% is not too bad for a league to accept" that implies that league would be acting as the merchant, which as I said, was a bad idea.


In regards to the league not using in house banking. (reference post #17)

The house is prepared with cash on hand incase bowlers want to get cash to pay their league fees.

So instead of giving the bowlers cash, give them the receipt to pass on to the league.

When the secretary settles up the lineage, those receipts are good as cash to the house.

If the league has more CC receipts than lineage costs, the difference would be given to the league secretary in cash to be deposited in the league bank account.

Everything would need to be documented, but that is the same for any other banking method as well.

The house can either chooses to eat the ~2% charge, or charge something like $20.50 for the $20 receipt.

[Mike White]

Raise the fees a dollar!!! Good God man what are you trying to do to me!!!! Sincerely most bowlers.

Ha Ha Ha, but it's only a buck.... until




2 leagues with the wife 15 x 2 = 30 x2 = 60
2 daughters in league. 13x2. = 26
Family twosome league 13 x3. = 39

60 + 26 + 39 = 125 a week
I don't even want to get into my youngest daughters tournament fees

Ok so it's "only" 9 bucks... per week. times ? weeks...

Just buy a couple less balls each year.

[bowl1820]

In John's comment "2% is not too bad for a league to accept" that implies that league would be acting as the merchant, which as I said, was a bad idea.


In regards to the league not using in house banking. (reference post #17)

The house is prepared with cash on hand incase bowlers want to get cash to pay their league fees.

So instead of giving the bowlers cash, give them the receipt to pass on to the league.

When the secretary settles up the lineage, those receipts are good as cash to the house.

If the league has more CC receipts than lineage costs, the difference would be given to the league secretary in cash to be deposited in the league bank account.

Everything would need to be documented, but that is the same for any other banking method as well.

The house can either chooses to eat the ~2% charge, or charge something like $20.50 for the $20 receipt.

As for giving the bowler a receipt, thats what they do here.
If you pay by debit or credit, they give you a receipt to place in the pay enevlope.
They don't give the secretary the cash difference, to be deposited in the league bank account. Because the house is the bank.

The league and/or the bowler doesnt get charged any fee for using a card, now maybe they are eating the fee. More likely its figured into the lineage the house charges.

Now for a house that doesnt provide in house banking (at least not like we have it), a league setting up a system to take cards would be silly. Because of the fees mentioned and the extra work it would involve.

[Tony]

Most league council members don't have the slightest clue as to how banking, accounting, and money management can be done. They usually just do it exactly how the last person in charge did it. Accepting credit cards now is incredibly easy and doesn't cost very much in fees if you have enough volume. 2% is not too bad for a league to accept. Just raise the price by a dollar a week and you can get an extra $30 per person into the league fund even after taking out card fees.

Keep in mind that while some leagues may operate with the bowling center as the bank ( I assume that's what you are saying) many do not.

That's why some places only accept a single payment for the year by CC because it is easier to break down that one transaction or they run it simply as a cash transaction and exchange cash or a receipt to sent into the league but it still requires a little more bookkeeping. The question is to the house is ....is it worth the value it adds?

As far as the league setting up their own merchant account ..... seems very unlikely ..

[Mike White]

As for giving the bowler a receipt, thats what they do here.
If you pay by debit or credit, they give you a receipt to place in the pay enevlope.
They don't give the secretary the cash difference, to be deposited in the league bank account. Because the house is the bank.

The league and/or the bowler doesnt get charged any fee for using a card, now maybe they are eating the fee. More likely its figured into the lineage the house charges.

Now for a house that doesnt provide in house banking (at least not like we have it), a league setting up a system to take cards would be silly. Because of the fees mentioned and the extra work it would involve.


My Tuesday night league here accepts CC/Debt payments for league dues. The league uses a "in house banking" system (one of the services the house offers leagues) instead of getting a "Outside" bank.

To pay you just tell them at the desk, they ring it up, swipe your card. They give you a receipt slip to put in the league envelope and one for your records and that's it.

Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it.

This is the post # 17 I was referring to when I typed.. "In regards to the league not using in house banking. (reference post #17)"

I was just showing, that the same method currently in use for in house banking, would work for non-in house banking by make only one small modification to the process.

Clearly you must not have read that line because this response doesn't address the issue.

"They don't give the secretary the cash difference, to be deposited in the league bank account. Because the house is the bank."

[Mike White]

Keep in mind that while some leagues may operate with the bowling center as the bank ( I assume that's what you are saying) many do not.
For leagues where the bowling center is the bank and accepts credit cards for the leagues they need to have an accounting system and controls to ensure that those funds are classified and recorded correctly. While this is certainly possible it adds some complication to the process. The bowling center does not want those funds to look like revenue and potentially have audit or tax difficulty because the state or federal tax collectors will want their share of the transaction. Oh but wait some of the transaction is money that goes to the house and some to the league and each league could have different fee structures ....see how this could become an issue depending on how the individual center is set up ?
That's why some places only accept a single payment for the year by CC because it is easier to break down that one transaction or they run it simply as a cash transaction and exchange cash or a receipt to sent into the league but it still requires a little more bookkeeping. The question is to the house is ....is it worth the value it adds?

As far as the league setting up their own merchant account ..... seems very unlikely ..


This is a problem the center has to deal with all the time, not just league specific.

A family comes in to bowl. At the front desk, the pay for the lineage, and shoes with a CC.

Oh but they are going to want something from the snack bar, which doesn't accept credit cards.

So in the charge for lineage / shoes, they also include some cash back.

Now how much of that cash is spent at the snack bar is not directly known.

I doubt the cash portion of the CC would be considered income at the front desk, but what cash is spent at the snack bar would be.

So for the league, the CC transaction wouldn't be considered income, but when the league secretary turns the receipt in for credit against the lineage bill, those would be.

[Tony]

This is the post # 17 I was referring to when I typed.. "In regards to the league not using in house banking. (reference post #17)"

I was just showing, that the same method currently in use for in house banking, would work for non-in house banking by make only one small modification to the process.

Clearly you must not have read that line because this response doesn't address the issue.

"They don't give the secretary the cash difference, to be deposited in the league bank account. Because the house is the bank."

We also have to keep in mind the house can act as a transaction provider exchanging CC payments for receipts and still allow the league to maintain their own prize fund account , that might be what was being done in the example.

[Mike White]

We also have to keep in mind the house can act as a transaction provider exchanging CC payments for receipts and still allow the league to maintain their own prize fund account , that might be what was being done in the example.

That is exactly what I was showing, which is counter to Bowl1820's claim of "Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it."

[Tony]

This is a problem the center has to deal with all the time, not just league specific.

A family comes in to bowl. At the front desk, the pay for the lineage, and shoes with a CC.

Oh but they are going to want something from the snack bar, which doesn't accept credit cards.

So in the charge for lineage / shoes, they also include some cash back.

Now how much of that cash is spent at the snack bar is not directly known.

I doubt the cash portion of the CC would be considered income at the front desk, but what cash is spent at the snack bar would be.

So for the league, the CC transaction wouldn't be considered income, but when the league secretary turns the receipt in for credit against the lineage bill, those would be.

Cash returned would of course not be included as revenue, but the system could be setup as payment to a non sale account rather than cash back so essentially the league portion of the money is accepted and credited to the league account, but is not a revenue transaction.

[Tony]

That is exactly what I was showing, which is counter to Bowl1820's claim of "Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it."

I agree, but had not gotten that that was your meaning.

[bowl1820]

Mike I wasn't addressing a issue and I dont care about that old post.

I was Just saying again that there was a way for a league to take cc payment and not act as the merchant paying all the fees for the card service you were going on about your post.

And that way was by using a in house banking service, I never said all houses have that service either.

I just gave as a example what they did here thats all. The house here (which is part of a chain) has been doing it for years, the leagues that use the service has had no problems.

[bowl1820]

That is exactly what I was showing, which is counter to Bowl1820's claim of "Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it."

Oh and im sorry that in that old post where i said "Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it." I should have added "unless the league sets up to use a card service to accept cc payments"

Something which a league is highly unlikely to do.

[Mike White]

Oh and im sorry that in that old post where i said "Now if a league uses its own bank, you can't do it." I should have added "unless the league sets up to use a card service to accept cc payments"

Something which a league is highly unlikely to do.

I agree it's HIGHLY unlikely, but it's not the only way for a league that uses it's own bank to have bowlers pay with CC's.

Instead of having bowlers make an "ATM" cash withdrawal at the front desk, then give that cash to the league, like most non-house banked leagues would require, operate the credit card/receipt process exactly how they do were you bowl.

Then "If the league has more CC receipts than lineage costs, the difference would be given to the league secretary in cash to be deposited in the league bank account."

Ta Da... the league accepts credit cards

actually the house accepted that card not the league, but that is true where you bowl at too.

[TonyInPortland]

I should have stated that the way ours works is the "in-house" system. That being said, I believe most people still pay by cash for their league and USBC fees.

There is one "secretary" for all the leagues. She is not even present when we are bowling, except for the sweeper.

[fordman1]

first off our center collects all bowling fees and gives the league treasurer a receipt it also gives them the pay envelopes. That way the treasurer can keep track of who paid what and not have to worry about getting robbed in the parking lot after bowling. The center puts the money for all the leagues into separate accounts for each league (25) leagues. They also keep the 50\50 money in that account. CC are not accepted except for purchases.

As for notification of bowling every bowler in every league gets a post card notifying them of the date of their league meeting and starting date. Usually the meeting is 2 weeks prior to league start. Rules and cost per bowlers are put into the bylaws. When you are running back to back leagues you don't have time to meet prior to starting. You would put the late league back too late.

[billf]

It will vary depending on the center. In reality the leagues are renting the lanes from the center. Each league will have it's own rules within USBC guidelines. It is not the center's responsibility to noticfy bowlers when the league starts, that belongs to the league officers. However, if an officer lets us know that they can't get ahold of somebody, forgot, doesn't have time or whatever then we will do so for them. As for the meetings, some do them the week before starting while others just have the meeting at the end of the season. Again, theses leagues belong to the bowlers and not the center so it all goes by what they vote for and availability.

This past summer I bowled a sanctioned league at another house. I know the owner and he is eccentric to say the least. I also knew going in he sets the lanes up to suit him. He average 247 last season and has 121 perfect games. This guy is such a control freak his employees don't even know how to turn on the oiler, log in to the register, etc.. The leagues at his center, the center is the secretary, treasurer and gets paid for it like any other secretary/treasurer. Any tournament that i've bowled with him present he procedes to tell the director how it should be done and how everyone besides him is incompetent.

[fordman1]

An organizational meeting must be held at the beginning of the season. It can not be held at the end of the season. At the end of the season you elect officers for the next season and set a meeting date for the next season.

Our center which has about 25 adult leagues is the sec./treasurer for about half. They are elected by the bowlers and do an excellent job. The also have a centeRepresentativeve at all meetings to answer any questions and make sure the veterans of the league don't put in any thing that is not legal. They don't speak unless totally necessary. The local assn. has rep. at most meetings also. If all centers were this attentive to the league bowlers bowling would not be in the shape it is today.
Corp. who own many centers are not helping bowling they are helping the bottom line.