I'll probably get hammered for this question

[LOUVIT]

I own a Track Heat and a Storm Phaze. From what I hear the Phaze should hit harder and carry more than the Heat. Whenever I leave a 7 pin where the 5 misses it or a weak 10 pin I wonder if the Phaze would have taken them out. Why do I bowl better with the Heat and feel more comfortable? I really hate leaving the Phaze out of it, I try it every week. Don't ask me what's it's doing or how it's reacting differently because I really don't know. Should I work on getting the Phaze working or just keep throwing the weaker heat?

let's hear it!..lol

Lou

[Mike White]

I own a Track Heat and a Storm Phaze. From what I hear the Phaze should hit harder and carry more than the Heat. Whenever I leave a 7 pin where the 5 misses it or a weak 10 pin I wonder if the Phaze would have taken them out. Why do I bowl better with the Heat and feel more comfortable? I really hate leaving the Phaze out of it, I try it every week. Don't ask me what's it's doing or how it's reacting differently because I really don't know. Should I work on getting the Phaze working or just keep throwing the weaker heat?

let's hear it!..lol

Lou

Whenever you leave a 7 pin, you've hit the headpin either high, or light.

You should never rely of the 5 pin to take out the 7 pin, the 5 pin's job is to take out the 8 pin.

So ask yourself, do you need a different ball to hit the headpin in a different location?

As for a 10 pin, that's a balancing act, as your ball gets stronger to take out the 10 pin, you're increasing your chances of leaving a 9 pin.

[Amyers]

Just because the heat came in weak doesn't mean the phaze would have been better could easily have been worse. It's the right ball on the right condition. The phaze from what I've seen has a hook stop motion that I'm not crazy about.

The best thing to do is practice with them both. It could be the phaze performs better with a different line than your using. Try moving deeper with or playing more straight up and you may find that utilizing different parts of the land it out performs the heat

[LOUVIT]

Just because the heat came in weak doesn't mean the phaze would have been better could easily have been worse. It's the right ball on the right condition. The phaze from what I've seen has a hook stop motion that I'm not crazy about.

The best thing to do is practice with them both. It could be the phaze performs better with a different line than your using. Try moving deeper with or playing more straight up and you may find that utilizing different parts of the land it out performs the heat

come to think of it, when I said I can't tell you why...the Phaze does tricks like that. I am happy with the shot and it dies....The Heat does not come in weak at all. Since I am new to this new reactive ball stuff I just expect more from the Phaze, maybe I read too much..lol. I am bowling on an afternoon senour league but I see the oil machine doing whatever it does when I get there. I was using the Phaze for my strike ball and the Track for 10 pins now I use the track for all. Not that I mind I just thought a stronger ball would be better. Remember I haven't bought a ball in 25 years and it was plastic on wood and crank...lol still learning

[LOUVIT]

Whenever you leave a 7 pin, you've hit the headpin either high, or light.

You should never rely of the 5 pin to take out the 7 pin, the 5 pin's job is to take out the 8 pin.

So ask yourself, do you need a different ball to hit the headpin in a different location?

As for a 10 pin, that's a balancing act, as your ball gets stronger to take out the 10 pin, you're increasing your chances of leaving a 9 pin.


so on a light hit what does take out the 7? I always thought it was the 5..but I can't see...lol

[Amyers]

come to think of it, when I said I can't tell you why...the Phaze does tricks like that. I am happy with the shot and it dies....The Heat does not come in weak at all. Since I am new to this new reactive ball stuff I just expect more from the Phaze, maybe I read too much..lol. I am bowling on an afternoon senour league but I see the oil machine doing whatever it does when I get there. I was using the Phaze for my strike ball and the Track for 10 pins now I use the track for all. Not that I mind I just thought a stronger ball would be better. Remember I haven't bought a ball in 25 years and it was plastic on wood and crank...lol still learning

Sounds like you see about what I see from that ball. My suggestion would be try it on a tighter more inside line. This should help the flip/stop be later and retain more energy. It may be that on your senior league is on shorter lighter pattern that doesn't fit the Phase well. I know our senior leagues here if they oil it's that way if they oil for it all. In the end you may find it's just a ball that doesn't fit your game well. I won one in a tip drawling or something and promptly traded it because I didn't like the way it rolled except for higher speed bowlers. I have seen a few that were drilled up quite a while after the ball first came out that rolled better but I just didn't like the look of it with most bowlers.

When that ball first came out there must have been 25 of them on my Saturday night league more than any ball I've ever seen that was a new release. I think it's down to 4 that are regularly using it still.

[Turkey Track Hammer]

I think part of the problem is thinking that the Track, is a weaker ball.

[billf]

Use the ball that carry's the best.

That weaker, stronger crap is just somebody's opinion based on who knows what. USBC says the earlier a ball reads the stronger it is. Most league bowlers would disagree thinking the harder it snaps at the breakpoint the stronger it is. But on what lane condition? They don't tell us that. A heay oil ball is made to perform in....heay oil. It does not perform even better with less oil.

[RobLV1]

Here's a pertinent question: If you use a "strong" ball and it rolls out at 40', is it then a "weak" ball? Conversely, if you use a "weak" ball and it retains the energy to carry all ten pins, is it then a "strong" ball? The whole Weak/Strong thing concerning bowling balls is the most detrimental thing that a bowler can think to mess up his ability to make smart ball choices and changes. Balls roll early, or they roll late. It's not a matter of weaker or stronger, it simply a matter of different.

[Mike White]

Here's a pertinent question: If you use a "strong" ball and it rolls out at 40', is it then a "weak" ball? Conversely, if you use a "weak" ball and it retains the energy to carry all ten pins, is it then a "strong" ball? The whole Weak/Strong thing concerning bowling balls is the most detrimental thing that a bowler can think to mess up his ability to make smart ball choices and changes. Balls roll early, or they roll late. It's not a matter of weaker or stronger, it simply a matter of different.

Whats even more detrimental is this notion that the ball loses energy.

What a ball does is lose linear velocity and axis of rotation, while gaining angular velocity, and momentum towards the pocket.

If the ball encounters friction before the end of the pattern, it can potentially lose the momentum gained by running up against the wall of oil.

When a ball is released, it has a specific energy level, due to it's linear velocity, and it's angular velocity.

As the ball travels down the lane, energy is neither created, nor destroyed, it is merely transformed from linear to angular.

[Amyers]

Here's a pertinent question: If you use a "strong" ball and it rolls out at 40', is it then a "weak" ball? Conversely, if you use a "weak" ball and it retains the energy to carry all ten pins, is it then a "strong" ball? The whole Weak/Strong thing concerning bowling balls is the most detrimental thing that a bowler can think to mess up his ability to make smart ball choices and changes. Balls roll early, or they roll late. It's not a matter of weaker or stronger, it simply a matter of different.

True and even more accurate would right ball / wrong ball

[Mike White]

That weaker, stronger crap is just somebody's opinion based on who knows what.


USBC says the earlier a ball reads the stronger it is.

If weaker, stronger is crap when it's somebody's opinion, then shouldn't it still be crap when it's the USBC's opinion?

[LOUVIT]

I won one in a tip drawling or something and promptly traded it because I didn't like the way it rolled except for higher speed bowlers. I have seen a few that were drilled up quite a while after the ball first came out that rolled better but I just didn't like the look of it with most bowlers.

.

Funny I won my Phaze on this site...

Anyway all good responses on the "stronger ball" theory. I threw 3 games with it yesterday and I left 8..yes 8 10 pins in 3 games and all on either a strike or a double. I ended up shooting 510 missing half of the 10 pin spares.

[Amyers]

Funny I won my Phaze on this site...

Anyway all good responses on the "stronger ball" theory. I threw 3 games with it yesterday and I left 8..yes 8 10 pins in 3 games and all on either a strike or a double. I ended up shooting 510 missing half of the 10 pin spares.

Well at least you were in the pocket I guess. You might try taking the polish off of it with a 4k pad and see if that helps it any. I'm not a huge fan of Storms 1500 polished finish.

[LOUVIT]

Well at least you were in the pocket I guess. You might try taking the polish off of it with a 4k pad and see if that helps it any. I'm not a huge fan of Storms 1500 polished finish.

I was bowling next to a guy with a 218 average yesterday and he advised me also to take off the polish, He said he did it and his ball changed a bunch. The Phaze is a very shinny ball to start with. In the 2 games I seen him bowl he did not leave 1 10 pin, then again he was at 16 mph and I am at 12. My Phaze has less than 50 games on it. How is this done, do I need to have the pro shop do it and what should I ask him to do as far as grit. I still don't know about that stuff.

[Amyers]

I was bowling next to a guy with a 218 average yesterday and he advised me also to take off the polish, He said he did it and his ball changed a bunch. The Phaze is a very shinny ball to start with. In the 2 games I seen him bowl he did not leave 1 10 pin, then again he was at 16 mph and I am at 12. My Phaze has less than 50 games on it. How is this done, do I need to have the pro shop do it and what should I ask him to do as far as grit. I still don't know about that stuff.

If you just want to get an idea you can rough the surface up yourself with a 4k Abaron pad, you can purchase the from the proshop usually $5-$8. To get the full effect and make it last you'll need the proshop to do it on the spinner. I do a lot of surfacing so my proshop lets me use their spinner for free as long as I buy my pads from them before that typical cost was $10-$20 to have them do it. I would start at 4k and work down. You speed is similar to my own and I find throwing much below 3k is usually ineffective unless I'm playing on a flooded lane.

[RobLV1]

I was bowling next to a guy with a 218 average yesterday and he advised me also to take off the polish, He said he did it and his ball changed a bunch. The Phaze is a very shinny ball to start with. In the 2 games I seen him bowl he did not leave 1 10 pin, then again he was at 16 mph and I am at 12. My Phaze has less than 50 games on it. How is this done, do I need to have the pro shop do it and what should I ask him to do as far as grit. I still don't know about that stuff.

3/4 of ball reaction is a result of the surface of the ball. The other 1/4 is a result of the core. The Phaze has a core that is designed to roll early. Trying to overcome the core with surface changes is like trying to drive your car on three out of four of its tires. It doesn't work. With a 12 mph ball speed you may not be able to use a ball with an early-rolling core without losing energy and leaving all of those ten pins.

[Amyers]

3/4 of ball reaction is a result of the surface of the ball. The other 1/4 is a result of the core. The Phaze has a core that is designed to roll early. Trying to overcome the core with surface changes is like trying to drive your car on three out of four of its tires. It doesn't work. With a 12 mph ball speed you may not be able to use a ball with an early-rolling core without losing energy and leaving all of those ten pins.

The reason my Nano Pearl lives in its bag lol

[LOUVIT]

3/4 of ball reaction is a result of the surface of the ball. The other 1/4 is a result of the core. The Phaze has a core that is designed to roll early. Trying to overcome the core with surface changes is like trying to drive your car on three out of four of its tires. It doesn't work. With a 12 mph ball speed you may not be able to use a ball with an early-rolling core without losing energy and leaving all of those ten pins.


so in reality I should not bother with this ball and maybe trade or sell it? Still being new at this "new" stuff I just thought a so called stronger ball would help me.

[RobLV1]

so in reality I should not bother with this ball and maybe trade or sell it? Still being new at this "new" stuff I just thought a so called stronger ball would help me.

And herein lies the problem with the terms weak and strong as applied to bowling balls. At 12 mph, this is not a strong ball for you, it is the wrong ball for you, IMHO. Take a look at something with a low rg in the 2.54 to 2.57 range. I can recommend the Storm Rocketship from personal experience.

[Amyers]

And herein lies the problem with the terms weak and strong as applied to bowling balls. At 12 mph, this is not a strong ball for you, it is the wrong ball for you, IMHO. Take a look at something with a low rg in the 2.54 to 2.57 range. I can recommend the Storm Rocketship from personal experience.

Calling the ball strong or aggressive wasn't what caused the problem here. The problem is the balls too aggressive for his style and lane conditions.

I do agree with the conclusion that the balls probably too much. I can't throw balls in that rg and cover range unless I'm on heavy oil and even then not sure this ball would still be a great choice.

Where are you currently standing, targeting, and getting the ball to at the break point? You maybe able to move left keep it in the oil longer and get a different look but from what you've said about leaving 10s with it you may have explored that possibility.

If your looking for another ball the question is do you want more than the heat or less? If more the storm rocketship or Brunswick quantum pearl would be good choices. If less the Track Tundra, storm tropical breeze, Brunswick Rhino would all be good balls.

[RobLV1]

Yes, actually, the problem here is calling the ball weak or strong for the simple reason that we have a cultural bias towards those words. Think about it. Strength is revered in our society. Super heroes are strong. Paper towels are touted as strong. Fast cars are called "muscle cars." On the other side of the coin, the thing that makes a process go bad is the weak link. Because of this bias towards the words, bowlers naturally gravitate toward balls that are strong... often much more aggressive than the bowlers style is able to handle.

[1VegasBowler]

Yes, actually, the problem here is calling the ball weak or strong for the simple reason that we have a cultural bias towards those words. Think about it. Strength is revered in our society. Super heroes are strong. Paper towels are touted as strong. Fast cars are called "muscle cars." On the other side of the coin, the thing that makes a process go bad is the weak link. Because of this bias towards the words, bowlers naturally gravitate toward balls that are strong... often much more aggressive than the bowlers style is able to handle.

Rob...So should we say the difference is more reactive and less reactive?

[RobLV1]

Rob...So should we say the difference is more reactive and less reactive?

How about aggressive early vs. aggressive late, since every reactive resin ball is aggressive by comparison to pre-resin balls.

[Amyers]

Yes, actually, the problem here is calling the ball weak or strong for the simple reason that we have a cultural bias towards those words. Think about it. Strength is revered in our society. Super heroes are strong. Paper towels are touted as strong. Fast cars are called "muscle cars." On the other side of the coin, the thing that makes a process go bad is the weak link. Because of this bias towards the words, bowlers naturally gravitate toward balls that are strong... often much more aggressive than the bowlers style is able to handle.

Rob I don't completely disagree with you I believe the problem is deeper than just wording though. But in this particular case that didn't have anything to do with it as he won this ball in a contest not purchased it was what I meant. People think they are in the same league as the pros if they average 220 on THS and throw the ball at 18mph. We both know that's not the case for more than most.

I have been working with one of my kids to lower his speed currently 17 mph on the monitors and of course when I started talking with him is the pros throw at that speed. What he didn't understand is the Pro's have rev rates of 400+ his might be 250 on a good day. The same things happen with balls they see them used by the pros on tour and even pricing the more expensive ball has to be better doesn't it?

Even if you were successful in changing the terminology it's not necessarily going to change the mindset of bowlers. I bowled in the city tournament this weekend and watched one member of the team we were bowling against continuously throw a Storm Crux against us on lane conditions that went from light oil in game one to nonexistent by game 6. He was upset about 580 for his first set (210 average bowler) and 490 for his second set and just couldn't understand why he bowled so bad.

[1VegasBowler]

Rob I don't completely disagree with you I believe the problem is deeper than just wording though. But in this particular case that didn't have anything to do with it as he won this ball in a contest not purchased it was what I meant. People think they are in the same league as the pros if they average 220 on THS and throw the ball at 18mph. We both know that's not the case for more than most.

I have been working with one of my kids to lower his speed currently 17 mph on the monitors and of course when I started talking with him is the pros throw at that speed. What he didn't understand is the Pro's have rev rates of 400+ his might be 250 on a good day. The same things happen with balls they see them used by the pros on tour and even pricing the more expensive ball has to be better doesn't it?

Even if you were successful in changing the terminology it's not necessarily going to change the mindset of bowlers. I bowled in the city tournament this weekend and watched one member of the team we were bowling against continuously throw a Storm Crux against us on lane conditions that went from light oil in game one to nonexistent by game 6. He was upset about 580 for his first set (210 average bowler) and 490 for his second set and just couldn't understand why he bowled so bad.

You've read most of my posts, and there are 2 things I have said right along. 1) The ball manufacturers like to target the newer, expensive balls to those who follow the pros, hoping to get them to buy. 2) Too many bowlers stay married to the same ball much longer than they should, even after they make position changes. Sometimes the pros have that same flaw.

There are balls that Brunswick comes out with that are pretty darn good, but don't fit my game and I won't use them.

And I too have a tendency to stay with a ball longer than I should, but I'm much better at changing these days and my scores/average show that.

For some, they tend to blame the equipment for what's happening on the lanes when they should be blaming the equipment operator.

If you can't change speeds, location or equipment, then ugly things are going to happen, especially when it comes to reading the transition. Everybody here makes those same mistakes and it's just a matter of making the corrections at the right time.